Member Hastouki Posted February 28 Member Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) Hello! I originally did the 30 day trial period of 3D coat last year but had at the time decided to not purchase after the trial period for a number of reasons, none of which were because I disliked 3DCoat. I do love many aspects of the package and have had my eye on it ever since. I generally work in ZBrush and Maya, and Painter/Designer or Marmoset Toolbag 4 for texturing. I've decided that I'd like to get more into the hand-painted art style and have always heard amazing things about 3D-Coat in that regard, so today I decided to take advantage of the reduced price and purchased a license. First thing I wanted to do was play around with the 3D painting again, but instantly noticed serious performance issues, which felt quite different from what I tried last year. I have no idea what has happened under the hood over the past year, but the 3D painting feels basically unusable for me. I work on pretty heavy scenes in the software mentioned above and generally don't have any performance issues. I don't have the latest hardware by any means, but I also haven't felt a need to upgrade as my day job is software development. I'm using a Radeon RX 6750 XT, which is certainly not a super high end card, but has been serving me well enough. I went back and installed 3D-Coat 2023.1, which is the version I evaluated a year ago and used OBS to capture some footage of the performance difference. Just for reference, I also recorded the exact same 3D cube I was testing with (exported straight out of 3D Coat) and painted on it in Substance Painter and Marmoset Toolbag, all of them are painting on 4K maps. The 4 videos are there, named accordingly, 2013-1.mkv and 2024.13.mkv are referring to the 3DCoat version numbers (sorry about the background audio, blame my wife): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Z_03uYfMh7sQrt7smj38vHbVvJei6rT2?usp=drive_link Any assistance here would be great, perhaps I'm misusing something, but I certainly don't think I can use the software as it is. If all else fails, what is the refund policy? I literally JUST bought it an hour or so ago, and was excited to check out the painting again. Thank you! Nick Edited February 28 by Hastouki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Painting over polygons with huge amount of textels is weak point (40000000 pixels / 6 faces). But it is not the real case. Just drop mesh not with 6 polygons but with 600 or 6000 and it will work much faster. Of course, refund is possible, just write to support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted February 28 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 28 Some things are not clear. The cube you are painting on in the paint room. How many polygons is it, a regular cube or a subdivided one, or is it a voxel / surface model showing in the paint room. You mentioned heavy meshes on the average you work with. What is the average polygon count for those models. I will do some test. I generally do not get lag painting. I will report back here with the results and my computer specs. I did watch the two 3DC videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted February 28 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 28 Goes with my above post. One quick test: Windows Version 2024.13 I work at real world scale in 3DC, very easy to do now. Model is 100 cm or 39 inches appox in size Model in paint room is 340,000 polygons. I subdivided it before baking into the paint room for Per Pixel painting just for the test. I chose that many polygons to push the test. I have 4 uv sets all at 4k resolution. I am painting both color and glossness at the same time. My brush set is at 16, your highest radius was 17. I would say that is an acceptable speed for painting that many polygons in the paint room. This is only a test and I am not comparing here. There could be some hardware/ driver problem issues that need resolving inside 3DC. Of course, I do not know that for sure, but I only know on my system I get no lag. Computer specs. i9---12900 intel CPU, 24 core 64 gigs of ram 3090 Nivida video card with 24 gigs of vram. Link the video. It will open and play from One Drive. https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnAYeBZKeS95jgc9M1buLWUhJGjr?e=X4J3hK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Painting over default cube with 8K texture using the brush size 1/3 of cube side is fluent and fast on my side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Optimized painting speed even more (in the upcoming 2024.14) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted February 29 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 29 On 2/28/2024 at 4:27 PM, Hastouki said: Hello! I originally did the 30 day trial period of 3D coat last year but had at the time decided to not purchase after the trial period for a number of reasons, none of which were because I disliked 3DCoat. I do love many aspects of the package and have had my eye on it ever since. I generally work in ZBrush and Maya, and Painter/Designer or Marmoset Toolbag 4 for texturing. I've decided that I'd like to get more into the hand-painted art style and have always heard amazing things about 3D-Coat in that regard, so today I decided to take advantage of the reduced price and purchased a license. First thing I wanted to do was play around with the 3D painting again, but instantly noticed serious performance issues, which felt quite different from what I tried last year. I have no idea what has happened under the hood over the past year, but the 3D painting feels basically unusable for me. I work on pretty heavy scenes in the software mentioned above and generally don't have any performance issues. I don't have the latest hardware by any means, but I also haven't felt a need to upgrade as my day job is software development. I'm using a Radeon RX 6750 XT, which is certainly not a super high end card, but has been serving me well enough. I went back and installed 3D-Coat 2023.1, which is the version I evaluated a year ago and used OBS to capture some footage of the performance difference. Just for reference, I also recorded the exact same 3D cube I was testing with (exported straight out of 3D Coat) and painted on it in Substance Painter and Marmoset Toolbag, all of them are painting on 4K maps. The 4 videos are there, named accordingly, 2013-1.mkv and 2024.13.mkv are referring to the 3DCoat version numbers (sorry about the background audio, blame my wife): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Z_03uYfMh7sQrt7smj38vHbVvJei6rT2?usp=drive_link Any assistance here would be great, perhaps I'm misusing something, but I certainly don't think I can use the software as it is. If all else fails, what is the refund policy? I literally JUST bought it an hour or so ago, and was excited to check out the painting again. Thank you! Nick Painting with large Brush sizes has been a problem for 3DCoat for years. With small to medium brush sizes, the performance has always been quite good. However, even 10 years later, and on hardware that is 4-5 times faster, this problem STILL exists, regarding large brush sizes. This indicates to me that there is some kind of fundamental bottleneck in the code, that prevents 3DCoat from painting beyond a certain number of pixels. None of 3DCoat's competitors have this problem, so it is not a problem with today's hardware not being able to paint on a 4k-8k map with a large brush. The paint brush engine perhaps needs a complete rewrite because it struggles where other competitors don't even break a sweat. Perhaps it is the old legacy code in the Paint workspace, that is the same one in the Tweak and UV room? They cannot handle dense meshes very well and I have to wonder if painting pixels (on UV maps) suffers from the same limitations. When painting on Rygaard's Rhino model (about 10mill polys) in the Sculpt workspace (designed to work well with large meshes), using a large brush, the performance seems relatively good. https://app.screencast.com/aM5oGfUL8VTW8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Hastouki Posted March 1 Author Member Report Share Posted March 1 (edited) 19 hours ago, AbnRanger said: Painting with large Brush sizes has been a problem for 3DCoat for years. With small to medium brush sizes, the performance has always been quite good. However, even 10 years later, and on hardware that is 4-5 times faster, this problem STILL exists, regarding large brush sizes. This indicates to me that there is some kind of fundamental bottleneck in the code, that prevents 3DCoat from painting beyond a certain number of pixels. None of 3DCoat's competitors have this problem, so it is not a problem with today's hardware not being able to paint on a 4k-8k map with a large brush. The paint brush engine perhaps needs a complete rewrite because it struggles where other competitors don't even break a sweat. Perhaps it is the old legacy code in the Paint workspace, that is the same one in the Tweak and UV room? They cannot handle dense meshes very well and I have to wonder if painting pixels (on UV maps) suffers from the same limitations. When painting on Rygaard's Rhino model (about 10mill polys) in the Sculpt workspace (designed to work well with large meshes), using a large brush, the performance seems relatively good. https://app.screencast.com/aM5oGfUL8VTW8 One of the main reasons for my post was to show the performance difference between versions 2023.1 and 2024.13, I hadn't used 3DCoat for about a year and noticed a pretty drastic difference. If you take a look at the 2014 video especially, the brushes are NOT large, none of them. The last one, which was completely unusable, was large relative to the smallest one at the beginning, but it still isn't what one would call a large brush. Edited March 1 by Hastouki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Hastouki Posted March 1 Author Member Report Share Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 5:50 PM, Andrew Shpagin said: Painting over polygons with huge amount of textels is weak point (40000000 pixels / 6 faces). But it is not the real case. Just drop mesh not with 6 polygons but with 600 or 6000 and it will work much faster. Of course, refund is possible, just write to support. I saw a fairly significant speed increase after subdividing the cube to about 6K quads, wasn't aware that the lower poly mesh could cause a performance drop. It seems counter-intuitive to me that this would be the case, but of course I have no idea how 3DCoat handles the 3D -> 2D projections under the hood. Looking forward to 2024.14! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Hastouki Posted March 1 Author Member Report Share Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 7:34 PM, digman said: Goes with my above post. One quick test: Windows Version 2024.13 I work at real world scale in 3DC, very easy to do now. Model is 100 cm or 39 inches appox in size Model in paint room is 340,000 polygons. I subdivided it before baking into the paint room for Per Pixel painting just for the test. I chose that many polygons to push the test. I have 4 uv sets all at 4k resolution. I am painting both color and glossness at the same time. My brush set is at 16, your highest radius was 17. I would say that is an acceptable speed for painting that many polygons in the paint room. This is only a test and I am not comparing here. There could be some hardware/ driver problem issues that need resolving inside 3DC. Of course, I do not know that for sure, but I only know on my system I get no lag. Computer specs. i9---12900 intel CPU, 24 core 64 gigs of ram 3090 Nivida video card with 24 gigs of vram. Link the video. It will open and play from One Drive. https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnAYeBZKeS95jgc9M1buLWUhJGjr?e=X4J3hK 24 core and a 3090... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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