Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 27, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 hello.. I have a question... how do you use the Vector Disp export from an object done in voxel room... ? big mystery .. let's say I have this model in voxel room, then in retopo room, I imported a flat mesh (with uv) and when 3D coat asked if I want to snap it, I said no.. now.. if I do an export vector displacement, I get nothing... where should I go from here..? Thank you h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 28, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 is it not possible...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 28, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 hello.. I have a question... how do you use the Vector Disp export from an object done in voxel room... ? big mystery .. let's say I have this model in voxel room, then in retopo room, I imported a flat mesh (with uv) and when 3D coat asked if I want to snap it, I said no.. now.. if I do an export vector displacement, I get nothing... where should I go from here..? Thank you h/ If the mesh is beneath the object you want to bake details/shape from, it won't work. I presume the normals on the mesh point toward (not behind) the voxel object/reference mesh. That's why you need to conform your mesh (and snap it) to the shape as best you can. Try to run AUTOPO (automatic topology generation tool), and test the result. One other note...not all render engines support vector displacement yet. Make sure to check that yours does before baking it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hello... thank you ABNranger... I tried to put the retopo mesh above and under.. but I get no results... I will try an Autopo as you suggested, but I just wanted to have a flat plane with the snake completely baked into a Vector Disp... Later h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ace63 Posted September 29, 2011 Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I also feel this should be possible - that is what vector displacement is for after all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 well yes it should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 29, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Herve, forgive me if this sounds like a stupid question, but did you create a UV map in the Retopo Room for it? That would be one reason why you don't get anything. With a UV map applied and merged to Microvertex mode, you can examine your VD map in the 2D Texture Editor. If it looks right there, then the only reason why you wouldn't get anything at render time is lack of support for it from your render engine. I think Mental Ray for Max only got support for it with 2012, and finalRender R3.5 for Max still doesn't have proper support for it yet. It has had a VD map option for a long time, but it doesn't work currently...so it could be on the render end, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hello.. thanks a lot ABNRanger.. well the app I am testing supports VD.. no problem... (cannot say more - NDA) but what I am getting is a full grey map from 3DCoat... and the thing is.. IF you send it to the paint room (microvertex) we have no option to tell 3Dcoat to bake a VD instead of a simple disp map... that's the point.. the thing is.. I want to have a flat plane with the entire snake baked into a VD... SO... if I try export VD from the retopo room... I get a full grey map. and IF I send it to the paint room.. the flat plane is automatically snapped to the snake form and a disp map baked for the details.. but this is not what I want... btw, my plane that I imported is UV'ed I am going to try importing a non subdivided flat plane (only one square polygon) and I will see what I can do.. But I still think exporting a VD map from the retopo room should work.. h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 look here... I imported a subdiv. plane mesh with UV..; I placed it above the voxel model.. then I do a VD texture export.. and I get a fully black map... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 btw, if I try exporting a simple disp map, I just get a fully gray map... so is there something wrong...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Forgot... there is no option in the Texture Baking Tool to output a VD.... so the question stays.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted September 29, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I didn't know that 3DC had the ability to export Vector Displacement Maps. It's my understanding that to extract VD the high res and low res meshes need to be connected in a subdivision hierarchy..at least that's how it works in Mudbox.. So how do you achieve that with a Voxel model. It's natural that you retopologize the Voxel mesh and bake your maps, but that won't work for VDM. Maybe there's some info in the docs, maybe you need to send it to the 3DC Sculpt room before you extract VDM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 29, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 hey thanks ghib.. well if you look at the docs, not much about VD, apart that 3DCoat imports and exports it... Andrew....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted September 30, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 mmmm... I even wonder if this is supposed to work...? am I missing some pages from the docs..? h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted October 1, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Fascinating...this is the first I've heard of Vector Maping in 3dCoat. I hope this thread continues. Are there any video tutorials made for this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 2, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 hello... well I looked about everywhere, but there is info that I can find other then it imports and exports Vector disp... the only way I can make it work at the moment (for exporting ) is to load a mesh in micovertex paint, then swith to sculpt, do whatever, go back to paint and then export the vector disp map... BUT as far as I can see , the real benefit would be to be able to bake the voxel to it... h/ I'd be VERY happy if Andrew could elaborate a little about this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 5, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 let's keep this topic on the run... hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 7, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 ermmm.. M. Andrew, can you help...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Heath_3d Posted October 8, 2011 Member Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi Herve_bis, So the problem here is that you're wanting something not possible in your described workflow. With current VD tech, you simply can't take two arbitrary meshes and turn one into another. As mentioned by Ghib, VD does most definitely require a subdivision workflow(such as mudbox or Zbrush). This is because VDM do not bake from a delta like a normal displacement map, but use the displacement tesselation at render time to determine the final location of the subdivided polygon. It does it this way because when you subdivide a mesh for sculpting, the Uv's are subdivided as well. So the new position of the sculpted polygon can be represented as an RGB value showing it's offset to it's original position. To have a VDM work the way you'd like, would require a lot more calculation with a lot more room for various errors. The Bake would have to take into account edge connectivity, somehow determine what parts of the source and target mesh were "meant" to be representing the same part of the object(so you'd be talking about some sort of difference threshold just for an initial pass) and then you'd have to have something in place for when crazy artists want to put a hole in the sculpt when there are none on the low poly model(one of 3dcoats main benefits is the ability to put holes when and where you'd like). If it's the sculpting tools in 3ds you prefer and that's why you're not using Mudbox, a method that might work is to subdivide your low poly mesh in the topo room over your sculpt(with snapping)a bunch of times(until you get the detail you want), export the new hires retop as an obj. Import the original model as a base layer in Mudbox, subdivide up to the same level you were in in 3dcoat and import the highpoly retop obj as a new layer.... a hassle but it might work. Hope this clarifies a few things for you. Oh, I think the VDM in 3dc is just for when working on microvertex painting. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 10, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 hello Heath_3D, thanks for your input.. well, yes I do know that VD works only with microvertex.. but I was just hoping that Voxels could be baked to it.. but well not the case... I have had success loading a plane in Microvertex, then in the sculpt room, I deformed that plane, then I went back to the paint room, and I could indeed output a VD map... so at least I do get something.. ... to be continued... h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted October 11, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 The mind boggles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 12, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 hehe... well I am really trying to push 3D coat, but for VD maps, Mudbox is indeed superior... too bad.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 14, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 my motto... Never give up !... hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted October 18, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Let's keep it up... sensible subject.. I love it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted November 5, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 ok, now that I can talk, you should know that Maxwell 2.6 has vector disp as a new feature... BUT, so far, the best bang is Mudbox... sorry to say Andrew.. If one wants a vector disp from 3D coat, the only way is to sculpt (lol) a base object in the sculpt room.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted November 5, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 ok, now that I can talk, you should know that Maxwell 2.6 has vector disp as a new feature... I am currently testing but unfortunately don't get anything useful done. It seems to render very fast but I fail to get things under control - whatever Map-Type and Parameter I try. See attached - the first is 3DC, the second is Maxwell. Generally - as you say already - having to use the Sculpt Room turns out as the largest limitation. Hopefully in V4 (where Andrew said that one can Paint directly on Voxels) one can just run an automatic Retopo after having finished the Painting and then save out Ptex Vector-Displacement. If anyone else wants to try as well, the .3b-file is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member herve_bis Posted November 8, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Andrew, if you read this.. well that's the way I imagine it should work.. Imagine working with voxels... I would retopo a much simpler mesh, make UVs (or use Ptex), then move it to the paint room, where I would output a nice Vector Map... h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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