[SOLVED] 3DCoat suddenly has a mind of its own ?

[Mike DaPrimate]

Okay, not sure what I did, maybe hit a hot key mistakenly, but 3DC is acting very strange. It won't let me commit any sort of cuts, brush tools or anything onto my voxels? I have several layers, and it went as far as limiting everything to my viewport camera translations. If I clicked either in or outside of my voxel model, all I had to use was the mouse alone. No need for the Alt key.

 

What noob move did I commit? 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mike DaPrimate

[Mike DaPrimate]

Now I'm noticing when I load up my scene, I can get the cut tool to work (and I'm sure other tools as well). However, when I unhide my reference image, this is when things go back to acting weird. The thing is, it hasn't happened before. I've been sculpting while toggling my reference image on and off with no issues like this. Why now?

 

Edit: Everything is still working the same still. It's all acting weird.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mike DaPrimate

[Mike DaPrimate]

I've lost hours of work and gained tons of frustration. I've unistalled 3DC, tried all versions of 3DC and nothing. I don't understand what's going on. Walking away for a while. Hopefully when I get back someone has something to share that offers up a solution. 

[Javis]

Hey Mike!

 

Sorry to hear about the troubles (thanks for the PM btw!).

 

A quick solution might be to delete your config files. If you're on Windoze they are in %USERNAME%\Documents\3D-CoatV4\

 

Make sure to do this when 3DC is closed, delete the configs, then re-open 3DC. Let us know if that helps.

[Mike DaPrimate]

Hey Mike!

 

Sorry to hear about the troubles (thanks for the PM btw!).

 

A quick solution might be to delete your config files. If you're on Windoze they are in %USERNAME%\Documents\3D-CoatV4\

 

Make sure to do this when 3DC is closed, delete the configs, then re-open 3DC. Let us know if that helps.

My first question would be which file is it? I don't see anything with the "config" wording attached to it.

 

Also, I'm working on a new install where I also deleted both that folder and the V3 folder, so it seems that I've covered that trouble shooting.

 

It keeps doing it randomly. Mostly when I unhide my reference image. Most of the time when I unhide it I can't use tools to model and every click in the viewport, whether on or off the mesh, commits to a navigation. Without the use of "Alt" as well. 

 

Between this and the artifacts bugs, 3DC has become more of an issue than anything else. I spend more time wishing things would just work as I see the potential behind all the tools, but it's a very unstable environment.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mike DaPrimate

[Javis]

When you try to commit something like that, is the ENTER key the only thing not working? Does hitting Apply on the Tool Options panel work?

[Javis]

My first question would be which file is it? I don't see anything with the "config" wording attached to it.

 

 

 

There are multiple configs. Back them up before you delete, then delete all of them.

 

Each of the files have "Options" in the name, they are .xml files.

[Javis]

Re-reading your first post, it could be that the layer you want to work on, isn't selected.

[Mike DaPrimate]

Re-reading your first post, it could be that the layer you want to work on, isn't selected.

 

Even though I still have been adjusting to how voxels work, layer selection is not the issue. Unless physically clicking the layer is not consider a selection?

 

I've noticed at times certain layers just can't be deleted. Or is it the root layer that can't be deleted?

[Javis]

Only the root layer cannot be deleted.

 

 

Have you hit Apply in the tool options panel?

[Mike DaPrimate]

Only the root layer cannot be deleted.

 

 

Have you hit Apply in the tool options panel?

Apply? I don't see a "apply" button when using the Cut Off tool.

[AbnRanger]

Apply? I don't see a "apply" button when using the Cut Off tool.

There isn't one. Could you please record what is going on, and paste the link here in this thread. You can use anyone of a number of free screen recorders, including JING (which will host the video on it's own website, screencast.com). Quicktime X has one, as does VLC player. This can help those here see what may be the culprit. Sometimes it is something simple like not having the right layer selected. To make sure, you can always hover over the object and hit the "H" key to auto select it. If you have the layer ghosted (clicking the icon next to the visibility/eye toggle, on the left side of your layer), then you won't be able to pick or modify that object (unless you change the default behavior in the "Ghosted Volumes Options" at the top of the UI).

 

[AbnRanger]

Also, when you have strange behavior like this, and you just cannot figure out what is going on, then close the app > got to MyDocuments/3D Coat V4 > delete the OPTIONS.XML file > restart the app and see if it helped. About 25% of the time, this will somehow fix it. That file gets fudged up once in a blue moon and can exhibit bug-like behavior.

 

Another thing to try before you do this is to close the app > restart and test on preset object/model/primitive from the splash screen. The Mannequin is a good one to test, as it has multiple objects/layers to which you can play with. If it works ok on a preset, then you have an idea that if the problem still persists on your workfile, then there is something messed up with that object or file. In that case you would want to e-mail Andrew (support @3d-coat.com), explain the issue, and send the file from within 3D Coat (HELP Menu > send file to support@3d-coat.com). If it's costing you time and is a critical issue, Andrew will typically stop whatever he is doing and focus on fixing it.

[Mike DaPrimate]

@AbnRanger

 

Yeah, was thinking about doing a screen capture, I've just been busy. Plus, I think I'm done with 3D Coat, unfortunately. Too many bugs and artifact issues that leads to broken geometry. To know a single individual has taken this application this far is really an impressive accomplishment. And it also sucks that I find myself stepping away from it cuz I really like the program! But as I wrap up with school, I need a program that is rock solid, and can also work well with 3DS Max. Mudbox seems to be the sculpting program I'm going to continue from this point on. It's very stable and works extremely well with Max.

 

And yeah, I also plan on helping with the bug report by making sure and get this info over. I hope it's not a bug and it's just me. When I get a moment I'll put something together. Until then, here's a quote I sent to Javis, maybe we can all try to replicate the issue and see what can be learned?

 

"Do the following.

 

Get an image for modeling reference, import into your left orthographic view. Now, work with primitive shapes and merge them into each other as you begin fleshing out your model. Be sue to traverse as many viewports as you want, in both orthographic and perspective (in fact, I suggest you do this intentionally). While you do this, begin using your "Cut Off" tool. Once you have the tool active, go into your E panel and start with the 3rd selection draw tool (start with this one, but feel free to deviate and use the other draw tools). Start drawing your selection with the cut off tool and right before your last click that will close the line, hide your image reference...then close your line that will finalize the cut. 

 

Keep working with this flow but continue to unhide and hide your image during your workflow, but be sure to hide your reference right before you're about to close your line and commit to a cut. See if your 3D Coat becomes temperamental and your start to lose functionality with your tools. It will happen on and off constantly."

Edited May 7, 2014 by Mike DaPrimate

[Carlosan]

3DC havent a mind of its own

 

If you have the reference images menu OPEN... all the brush operation are performed over the images, not the sculpt layer.

You must to CLOSE reference images menu to perform brush operations over the sculpt layer.

 

And remember not to work in Non Uniform scale, always perform RMB > to global space.

 

The learning curve in 3DC is high, is not an easy software to know deeply in one month... be ready to spend a LOT of time learning it.

 

Why ?

Because every room is a software inside a software

3DC is a global solution -not total solution, but take some areas of model development-

 

I suggest to watch all the official youtube videos and of course, read the manual

 

Hope it help.

[Mike DaPrimate]

3DC havent a mind of its own

 

If you have the reference images menu OPEN... all the brush operation are performed over the images, not the sculpt layer.

You must to CLOSE reference images menu to perform brush operations over the sculpt layer.

 

And remember not to work in Non Uniform scale, always perform RMB > to global space.

 

The learning curve in 3DC is high, is not an easy software to know deeply in one month... be ready to spend a LOT of time learning it.

 

Why ?

Because every room is a software inside a software

3DC is a global solution -not total solution, but take some areas of model development-

 

I suggest to watch all the official youtube videos and of course, read the manual

 

Hope it help.

Replied in PM before I saw this.

 

So I will copy and paste for new viewers. 

 

"Did you watch the video? I've hidden reference images and cut just fine before. As I mentioned, it's temperamental. Also, your tips did not work. 

 

I have an entire video capture of the modeling process of my M416 showing the tools performing exactly how I mentioned, until it became unstable. 

 

It would also be extremely disappointing to learn that part of the voxel modeling work flow would make it so cumbersome to use reference images during the modeling process by forcing you to close each time to perform a cut. Reference images are essential in the world of 3D content creation. 

 

I don't want to put 3DC aside, I've already imagined all the work flows I can pursue with voxel sculpting. Just have been issues with bugs, especially artifacts and meshes that tear and break. 

 

This gun is a perfect example of how voxels make it easy for me to model and sculpt. I put this together in no time and was preparing to sculpt details, retopo and paint. Voxels are awesome. 

 

Still waiting for a solution, as non has been presented. "

 

Thanks for the help. 

[Carlosan]

Replied in PM before you saw this.

 

So I will copy and paste AbnRanger reply for new viewers.

 

-----------------------------

 

Okay, so here it is guys. Thought I'd copy everyone I've had some sort of exchange with. By the way, I also wanted to say I really like the forums tools here. Some of the best I've come across! Please confirm that you have downloaded the video file so I can remove it from my cloud storage. Thank you. 

 

 

Hey Mike, thanks for taking the time to screen record what the problem is. Sometimes it's incredibly difficult to understand the issue without seeing what's actually going on in the viewport. Here is a video that helps explain the usage of the Image Planes in relation to your issue. Basically, just as it is when you merge a model into the Voxel Room or import a mesh into the Retopo room, you have a preliminary object...that just lets you move it about in the viewport + scale + rotate. You can't fully edit it until you commit the the object to a layer (by hitting the ENTER key or APPLY in the Tool Options panel).

 

In this case, you are in a "Setup" mode of sorts, and get out of it by hitting the CLOSE button. I realize it's frustrating, so that's why most of the videos on the Youtube Channel were made. Try and watch the "Intro to 3D Coat series," and then cherry pick what you need from the "Feature Demo" playlist, among others.

 

[AbnRanger]

Mike, I feel your pain, Bro! Been there, done that. In fact, I was ready to walk away a few times and even bought a seat of Mudbox to use instead. Nevertheless, 3D Coat is so much stronger than Mudbox in many areas, and you can't voxel model there. For this reason, I practically never use that license. A lot of that has to do with Autodesk's nasty habit of acquiring software and sitting on it. Mudbox has seen paltry updates compared to ZBrush and 3D Coat.

 

The very best thing you can do when running into an issue like this, is to do what you just did. Screen record it. If you don't get a resolution here, then send the video link to Andrew (support@3d-coat.com) and when possible, the workfile. If you are working on a project for work and on a tight deadline, send the issue straight to Andrew. He generally will stop what he is doing and try to get it fixed ASAP. The screen recordings always help him narrow it down and help you get a solution much quicker. I don't know of any other company or developer that is as responsive, this way.

[AbnRanger]

By the way....you can send the workfile directly from within 3D Coat, via the HELP menu. There is a option to "Send file to support@3d-coat.com." You may want to zip a copy first, to reduce the file size and make it quicker to upload.

[Mike DaPrimate]

Mike, I feel your pain, Bro! Been there, done that. In fact, I was ready to walk away a few times and even bought a seat of Mudbox to use instead. Nevertheless, 3D Coat is so much stronger than Mudbox in many areas, and you can't voxel model there. For this reason, I practically never use that license. A lot of that has to do with Autodesk's nasty habit of acquiring software and sitting on it. Mudbox has seen paltry updates compared to ZBrush and 3D Coat.

 

The very best thing you can do when running into an issue like this, is to do what you just did. Screen record it. If you don't get a resolution here, then send the video link to Andrew (support@3d-coat.com) and when possible, the workfile. If you are working on a project for work and on a tight deadline, send the issue straight to Andrew. He generally will stop what he is doing and try to get it fixed ASAP. The screen recordings always help him narrow it down and help you get a solution much quicker. I don't know of any other company or developer that is as responsive, this way.

Yeah, it has been a strange give and go situation so far. And you hit on a few points that I'm focused on. First, I positively love the idea of 3D Coat and the tools it comes with! Right now I'm trying to figure things out more and knock out all of the noob while understanding how things work out with voxel sculpting.

 

For example, I'm currently wrapping up school in the next month and I'm looking to take what I've learned and make things easier for me. Since I've been exposed to 3D Coat, I've already begun to put workflows to theory and have started to go at the program with the use of the YouTube channel as a quick learning guide.

 

In school, the curriculum is with Zrush (which I really don't like), and 3DS Max, which I like a great deal, but, there's been more than a few times that I find myself saying "man that would be so much easier sculpting with voxels and just retopo it". Even with hard surface models. Which is the main reason why I'm doing this particular project. I want to model, sculpt, retopo, paint initial textures that will move over to dDo for finalization, then pass all assets through Max & Photoshop so they can be exported into CryEngine. This project is a test to see the workflow, identify bugs, learn more about 3DC and begin to refine the process to speed up the pipeline with 3DC's tools.

 

My teacher is an outstanding artist, but I'm looking to make things easier for me. Everyone uses Zbrush or Mudbox, and I get why. Nothing wrong with those apps. But this voxel stuff keeps calling me. I like to use Max for architectural stuff and planar mapping. When it comes to organic models, I'm looking for a global solution from beginning to end (or close to it), I don't want to jump out of apps all the time. If I have to sculpt something, I wanna be close to done, if not completely, before I leave the app. Texture work is something I'm fine taking outside the app.

 

Have to agree about the response as well. My money will always go towards a product that listens and responds to its customer. Mudbox is an option that I'm still researching. I like it, it's interface is simple, not cluttered and there is a live connection with 3DS Max that works extremely well. Those are the strong points for me. But as you said, I already started to miss 3DC tools and voxel modeling. Dude, I put that M416 together in no time, and I'm a novice 3DC user! It's so slick how fast objects can be put together with voxels. I just think of things and BOOM, voxels make it happen fast! I can't wait till I get into the retopo room and finally get back into finishing this test run project. Funny thing is, I imagine at some point, Mudbox and Zbrush will adobpt this voxel workflow at some point. I mean, combining meshes to get results, then quickly jump into the retopo room seems like a dream for me. It's a matter of building up a library and suddenly you have modular modeling on an extremely high level. Even for complex shapes. 

 

Yeah, I have no problem screen recording. In fact, I have plans on making that the primary communication tool for these internet exchanges. Makes life way easier. 

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mike DaPrimate