[SOLVED] 3.5.04 [beta] Horror

[xeen3d]

Hi

the 3.5.04 [beta]: is absolute Horror without doing anything it use 10 % CPU Power see the Picture.

at some actions it goes out of memory and the hole mac frozen after that the filsystem must be repaired !! the only way to stop 3dc is to power off the mac.

I purchased this program 2 weeks ago and until today i get no stable version !!!!!!!!

So if i be a beta tester give me my money back please i will do tests for you but i don't pay for that.

The actual Full Version isn't stable all Betas are not stable !!!!!!!!

Developers what will you do ? bring us a stable purchased full version or make happy Betas with unneeded features memory leaks and crashes ?

the way to put new features in your Beta Program without giv your customers a stable full working version is not the right way than i must look to other

program

The way that a not active program need 10 % power and every thing need more cpu Power than in the last beta version is not the right way , you wish to get debug code

test it on your own systems !!!

Iam very unhappy and angry that i purchased that program Beta 4 was the 4 th chance to do something for your mac customers and what did you done with that chance ?

absolutly nothing than make the program slower more unstable and bring untranslated features in it.

Sorry that is absolutely not the right way if i work like you i loose my Job !!!!

It is not my Job to be your beta tester i purchased an App and will get for my money a working one so do your Job and make a working Version 3.5x without putting new

untested features in it if you cant do that inform me i give you my Bank transfer information to transfer me my money back.

It is not needet to put my system information here i have done this 2 weeks ago i put only the picture here with the activity monitor and 3dc in background without a scene is loaded.

A very very angry Customer of you software

Andre

[Andrew Shpagin]

Excuse for all your problems. How long ago have you downloaded 3.5.04? Actually I uploaded it 20 min ago and even have not announced re-upload. Yesterday's build was really problematic (was not running at all).

In your case I recommend you get refund. You will get your money back and I will not cancel your license, you will be able to use it.

But actually I am working as a horse day and night over making this program better, answering all needs and hearing requests. You may ask the opinion of users there in forum.

[Grandmaster B]

Andrew does an amazing job with 3D-Coat, i never saw a developer so passionate about his software over a so long period of time.

With the pace 3D-Coat is developed there will always be bugs in it but frequent crashes or freezes do not normally happen and should not. It's normal to be angry or even overreact in that case. I hope you two can work things out anyway.

[Metromot]

Andrew, I am sure you work a lot and I have respect for what you do. I can imagine the Windows and Linux versions are running fine and lots of users are very happy with it. But I have to say that I also was disappointed with the Mac version after starting some serious work. There are numerous small problems which can be forgiven like the progress bar not showing the progress or not appearing at all. But there are bigger bugs and very serious ones like crashes and memory leaks which is not acceptable for commercial software.

I can't wait for todays release to see if I can actually start it now and use it without that memory leak bringing my whole system down, but it still looks like there is a lack of quality control at least for the Mac version and I would recommend you do more thorough testing and bug fixing before starting to implement new features again. It's a nice gesture to offer the money back but this almost looks like you are about to give up on the Mac version, I hope that's not the case... speaking for myself I would rather be able to use it and see a fix of the problems which I am sure is quite possible to do.

After that we can talk about things like perhaps using the mac menu bar and GUI elements instead of having that tiny text that is hard to read on a high-rez monitor. Another thing would be using the proper folders like Preferences, Application Support and Documents instead of storing everything that changes during use inside the 3DC Application folder and losing it when you update (Why must the file selection always start in the 3DC Application folder instead of the last folder I used like any other Program does? - I never would want to save my work there!). In other words, have someone who is not just compiling 3DC on a Mac to make it somehow run, but someone who actually uses a Mac and cares about its conventions and standards.

[Metromot]

Andrew does an amazing job with 3D-Coat, i never saw a developer so passionate about his software over a so long period of time.

With the pace 3D-Coat is developed there will always be bugs in it but frequent crashes or freezes do not normally happen and should not. It's normal to be angry or even overreact in that case. I hope you two can work things out anyway.

I don't share your view. If you care more about adding features than about having a software that does not crash, there is something seriously wrong. I'm not sure which platform you use, but you probably need to try using 3DC on a Mac to make a statement about the original poster's point.

[Javis]

I don't share your view. If you care more about adding features than about having a software that does not crash, there is something seriously wrong. I'm not sure which platform you use, but you probably need to try using 3DC on a Mac to make a statement about the original poster's point.

Andrew is not only focused on features, he's very strong at attacking bugs. Unfortunately there has been a recent has of bugs on the mac platform, but that's no reason to tear him down like the OP did. Submission of proper bug reports with means to reproduce the bug is the best way to help solve these issues on your preferred platform.

Luckily I've not been a mac user since the mid 90s.

[Grandmaster B]

I don't share your view. If you care more about adding features than about having a software that does not crash, there is something seriously wrong.

I did not wrote or meant that! Regarding that i wrote my opinion in another thread already.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Starting from this week I have dedicated guy that seats near me to test Mac build. I hope all will go better.

But I need some time to investigate reason of all instabilities, at least couple of weeks of working with this guy.

Also my usual workflow is:

- fix bugs until there are no [or almost] complains in forum

- after that I start something. This time I decided to do very important and most longstanding request since 3D-Coat's origin - improving brushing engine. It is even not new feature. It took 2 weeks and this time I was not able to fix bugs. Usually during this time something happens and I am not able to help well. But anyway I am trying to hear and fix most urgent problems.

So please understand me.

[Rich_Art]

NO worries Andrew.. I / we know you do your best to make it awesome.

Peace,

Rich_Art.

[hOss]

I do most of my work on a Mac. Most, but not all. Before buying a license to 3D-Coat v3.5 (both Mac and Windows), I, of course, downloaded the trial version of both 3D-Coat v2 and then 3D-Coat v3 when it was first released. Now, my experience with v2 was not so good for two reasons: 1) I am a native English speaker and the English translation for 3D-Coat was very, very difficult to follow at that time, so I found it difficult to learn the tools and proper workflow. This has since been corrected and, IMO, the English translation is VERY good and especially the pop-up help for the tools are VERY descriptive and helpful! 2) After launch, v2 on my Mac would crash almost every time I selected a tool and tried to use it. I'm not kidding, it was unusable, IMO. Now, my initial trial of v3 was better. The English translation was excellent, so, no problem there. However, I still had the problem with crashing on the Mac.

Now, as of 3D-Coat v3.5.01 or v3.5.02, I cannot recall which build (it was the build after Andrew got advice from NVidia on OpenGL optimizations), I believe that my Mac build is not only rock solid, but it actually feels faster than my Windows version in the viewport for once. Now, there is another caveat of the Mac version that I've noticed over the Windows version-notifications. By this, I am talking about showing the user progress when 3DC is performing an operation. For example, when using AUTOPO, the Windows version shows the progress bar with an explanation of what 3DC is currently doing, as well as a % in the title bar of it's progress. In the Mac version, sometimes I get a progress bar, sometimes I don't, when I do, it's usually blank with no info, and I also have the spinning "beach ball" which makes it appear as though 3DC has crashed, even in the Dock it offers to Force Quit the app. However, I've found that if I just get up, walk away for a minute or so and come back, the operation is complete and 3DC is back to normal. Even the Windows version tends to say 3DC is "Not Responding" in the title bar and the screen will fade (On Windows 7, anyway), giving the impression of a crash, however, patience proves that if you just leave it alone for a few minutes, it will finish its calculations and return to normal. Thing is, without the progress bar appearing on the Mac version in most situations, it totally looks and acts as if the program has crashed. Thing is, it usually hasn't. Perhaps this is due to the lack of a 64-bit Mac version, yet? So there is less RAM available for intensive operations and there is more virtual memory being used? IDK, but all I do know is that the optimizations Andrew has made in the last 2 or 3 builds has made a world of difference on my Mac version.

Keep up the great work, Andrew!!!

-Patrick

[AbnRanger]

I don't share your view. If you care more about adding features than about having a software that does not crash, there is something seriously wrong. I'm not sure which platform you use, but you probably need to try using 3DC on a Mac to make a statement about the original poster's point.

The way to get a real resolution in any software is not to blow up in a public forum, but to FIRST contact support and TRY to find a solution to your problem. If you haven't even done that much, then there is a major source of your problems.

Instead of giving any specifics, or instead of trying to FIND A SOLUTION...you came here to insult. Talk about losing a job. Try heaping insults at your supervisor or clients and let us know how that works out for you.

ANY time you have a new release in ANY software, there are new bugs introduced. I can assure that Mac users of ZBrush get pretty ill with Pixologic too. There is no magic wand to have a bug-free application. The only way to do that is to essentially shut down development and offer no new features/enhancements. If you want software that doesn't offer updates and new features at a fast pace, then yes, you have the wrong application.

If you can make a brief video capture (using Camstudio, BB Flashback Express which is free, or Jing...free also) of the problem and send a link to it to support@3d-coat.com you'll get a solution much, much faster than venting your frustration here. If Andrew can pinpoint what's happening in your video, then he may ask you to send a copy of your file so he can try to re-produce it.

There is not a single piece of software out there that doesn't have some issues at any given time....often times those issues are LOOOONNNGG-standing problems. For example...3ds Max 2011 has a new Character Animation Toolkit (CAT) included, but there have been some long-standing bugs that Autodesk have been made aware of on their forums since it was released in March. Here we are not far from a new release and there is still no hotfix for those major issues.

I have come across bugs in 3D Coat at inopportune times, myself, and get pretty frustrated, but I stop...take a few minutes to get a video capture of the problem, and Andrew usually gets right on it. I don't know of any other software vender that is that attentive. It's practically like having a TD an e-mail away, to help anytime you have an issue. That is not the case anywhere else that I'm aware of...save some plugin dev's.

As I have said before, one reason why I never and will never buy a MAC is because it is ALWAYS lagging behind in support and new releases. Some of that is due to it's tiny market footprint, and much of it is the way Steve Jobs chooses to develop his OS's. Don't blow up on developers because Steve Jobs makes their life unnecessarily hard.

[Metromot]

AbnRanger, you may have misquoted me, I did not blow up here. I was supporting the original poster in his view that the version of 3DC that he bought was not ready for use on his non-exotic hardware. He was overreacting? maybe, but while I fully believe that on your Windows machine or on other Mac configurations it's running awesome and Andrew fixes bugs fast when they get reported, what he (and I) payed for should not have been a release version in the first place. I still believe the Mac version needs work to be done, which should come first before adding new features. I also believe that thorough testing before release should be performed on ANY platform. - I see V. 3.5 has been out since 7 weeks now with the fatal clipboard memory leak which tells that relying on the forum members to report bugs is not sufficient .

I did report it in the urgent bugs forum here almost 2 weeks ago, got it confirmed by other users but did not see any official acknowledgement for more than a week, then I sent an email to support and it was fixed today - fair enough. The fact that now there is a dedicated Mac guy is great news, TY Andrew. But still, new users will download the official 3.5 and not know what is happening when 3DC eats all the memory.

Oh, and I do realize that the majority in this forum are Windows users, which may also be the reason why the Mac bugs are able to stay undetected for so long when the quality of the software depends so much on forum members finding problems. But 3DC is officially supported on Macs and sold for the same price. I did not read anywhere that the Mac or Linux versions should be expected to lag behind. There is all kinds of great and very complex Software for Macs that works as well or better than their Windows counterparts, so there is no reason to blame Steve Jobs (which I am NOT a fan of, neither Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates or [insert your favorite CEO here]), Macs in general or the 'Tiny Market Share' (which is above 10% in the US and steadily growing btw) for not testing enough. I take your opinion that Macs are 'ALWAYS lagging behind' as a typical preconception by someone that would never buy a Mac.

P.S. I really don't want to see a childish platform war being started. Yours and geothefaust's remarks are not helping in letting Mac users feel welcome here who believe 3DC should get our support by buying it and pointing out where the problems lie. If you don't think that 3DC should be treated the same or cannot run equally well on all platforms because you didn't own a Mac since the 90's or they are lagging behind or for whatever reason, maybe ask Andrew to drop Mac and Linux support sooner rather than later. Otherwise, I don't think this is the place for side-blowing Mac users with those remarks.

[AbnRanger]

AbnRanger, you may have misquoted me, I did not blow up here. I was supporting the original poster in his view that the version of 3DC that he bought was not ready for use on his non-exotic hardware. He was overreacting? maybe, but while I fully believe that on your Windows machine or on other Mac configurations it's running awesome and Andrew fixes bugs fast when they get reported, what he (and I) payed for should not have been a release version in the first place. I still believe the Mac version needs work to be done, which should come first before adding new features. I also believe that thorough testing before release should be performed on ANY platform. - I see V. 3.5 has been out since 7 weeks now with the fatal clipboard memory leak which tells that relying on the forum members to report bugs is not sufficient .

I did report it in the urgent bugs forum here almost 2 weeks ago, got it confirmed by other users but did not see any official acknowledgement for more than a week, then I sent an email to support and it was fixed today - fair enough. The fact that now there is a dedicated Mac guy is great news, TY Andrew. But still, new users will download the official 3.5 and not know what is happening when 3DC eats all the memory.

Oh, and I do realize that the majority in this forum are Windows users, which may also be the reason why the Mac bugs are able to stay undetected for so long when the quality of the software depends so much on forum members finding problems. But 3DC is officially supported on Macs and sold for the same price. I did not read anywhere that the Mac or Linux versions should be expected to lag behind. There is all kinds of great and very complex Software for Macs that works as well or better than their Windows counterparts, so there is no reason to blame Steve Jobs (which I am NOT a fan of, neither Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates or [insert your favorite CEO here]), Macs in general or the 'Tiny Market Share' (which is above 10% in the US and steadily growing btw) for not testing enough. I take your opinion that Macs are 'ALWAYS lagging behind' as a typical preconception by someone that would never buy a Mac.

P.S. I really don't want to see a childish platform war being started. Yours and geothefaust's remarks are not helping in letting Mac users feel welcome here who believe 3DC should get our support by buying it and pointing out where the problems lie. If you don't think that 3DC should be treated the same or cannot run equally well on all platforms because you didn't own a Mac since the 90's or they are lagging behind or for whatever reason, maybe ask Andrew to drop Mac and Linux support sooner rather than later. Otherwise, I don't think this is the place for side-blowing Mac users with those remarks.

I apologize for addressing the wrong person...it was the OP I thought I was talking to. In a hurry I guess. Well...as for the platform issue. I can understand you pay for something and you EXPECT to get equal support...however, that's a false premise. Obviously, there is something with MAC OS's that have been giving developers fits. Now, should they hold up progress on other platforms just because MAC OS issues are 10 times the headache? The problem isn't unique to 3D Coat...just go over to Pixologic's forums and read through all the flak from MAC users there.

Just look at 3ds Max, it outsells Maya and Softimage combined, yet they year after year take a pass on creating a version for MAC's. There was a recent poll taken at the Area, where the question was raised whether they should, and I believe overwhelmingly the answer was NO. You can remain in denial all you want...but developing software for a MAC must be major a pain in the bum. Andrew said nearly as much not too long ago, and didn't mince words. Something like "Steve Jobs making developer's lives a living hell" or something to that effect. So, you know more about programming than Andrew, do you? Why then aren't you developing your own then?

Have you ever had a paying project that ended up being way more trouble than it was worth? Would you like to be a developer having to do 3 times more work for a tiny fraction of the return you get elsewhere? If it were me, I would drop MAC support...until I could justify the costs involved on my behalf, or Apple made my life a lot easier trying.

I'm just a guy on the outside looking in and making an observation...and quite frankly every time I hear... "Is the MAC version ready yet?" or "When will a MAC version be available?" ....I'm glad I went with that pudgy, geeky Windows/PC guy...he's got the goodies, while the cool, suave MAC guy has....to wait. That's not a flame; that's just reality speaking.

[Grandmaster B]

This is good news Andrew!

[Metromot]

I apologize for addressing the wrong person...it was the OP I thought I was talking to. In a hurry I guess.

Apology accepted.

Just look at 3ds Max, it outsells Maya and Softimage combined, yet they year after year take a pass on creating a version for MAC's. There was a recent poll taken at the Area, where the question was raised whether they should, and I believe overwhelmingly the answer was NO.

Seriously, what other outcome can there be from a poll among users of a program that only exists on Windows? If software development/evolution was being decided by such polls and nobody would ever challenge a Microsoft monoculture, you'd probably still run DOS

[Grandmaster B]

Maybe, but if i had a Mac i would also vote for "No", Max sux.

[AbnRanger]

Apology accepted.

Seriously, what other outcome can there be from a poll among users of a program that only exists on Windows? If software development/evolution was being decided by such polls and nobody would ever challenge a Microsoft monoculture, you'd probably still run DOS

That's an assumption. The reality is that there are likely many of those same pollsters who have MAC's somewhere in the pipeline (perhaps for Maya seats, FinalCut, Smoke for MAC, etc.), or have MACbook Pro laptops of their own...

I'm sure Ken Pimentel (Product Manager over 3ds Max) would like to tap into the MAC market as well...but there are likely no cost/benefit justifications for doing so. I'd almost be willing to bet that Andrew has taken a net loss on MAC support...too little incoming resources vs. development hours/resources expended. So, when you get all bent out of shape about not getting your money's worth...step into Andrew's shoes for a moment and think how you'd feel if you were burning considerably more time in supporting one OS for a tiny fraction of the return on investment. It's not his fault Apple has made things so difficult for developers like himself.

Even with all that in mind, he busts his tail trying to do so anyway. What gets me is all the boasting about how MAC's can run Windows as well (bootcamp)...but then you have guys like yourself unwilling to use what is at your disposal. If I knew the MAC versions were well behind in certain applications I use every day, you better believe I'm bootcamping.

I think a good compromise may be, until a 64bit MAC version comes out and it can be stabilized, for Andrew to offer a dual license to MAC customers for no extra charge. I understand how tough it is for him on the development side, but I also think offering them the ability to use Linux or Win at no extra charge is a reasonable gesture for the time being.

Maybe, but if i had a Mac i would also vote for "No", Max sux.

I'm sure you meant "MAC's" suck, right. Sounds the same...easy mistake to make, cause Max ROCKS, baby!

[Metromot]

That's an assumption. The reality is that there are likely many of those same pollsters who have MAC's somewhere in the pipeline (perhaps for Maya seats, FinalCut, Smoke for MAC, etc.), or have MACbook Pro laptops of their own...

Yes, I assume it was a windows majority being asked, including people like you who seem to have great fear that development for their systems might suffer when companies open up to other platforms. A quite shortsighted view IMO. Really no surprise. - Your reasoning sounds quite manipulative, like since there must be enough pollsters who have macs they must also have voted no for the most part - which makes no sense unless they hate using their Macs. Please don't project your views onto others. There ARE people different than you who make different choices and are happy with it.

I'm sure Ken Pimentel (Product Manager over 3ds Max) would like to tap into the MAC market as well...but there are likely no cost/benefit justifications for doing so. I'd almost be willing to bet that Andrew has taken a net loss on MAC support...too little incoming resources vs. development hours/resources expended. So, when you get all bent out of shape about not getting your money's worth...step into Andrew's shoes for a moment and think how you'd feel if you were burning considerably more time in supporting one OS for a tiny fraction of the return on investment. It's not his fault Apple has made things so difficult for developers like himself.

Well, I can imagine that lots of potential Mac users of 3DC are and have been discouraged from purchasing when they see how buggy the trial version is while it eats up all memory and finally crashes. Going so far that Andrew needs to offer refunds. Thats not a good recipe for a return of investment, talk about a chicken and egg problem. Now as soon as he learnt about it, he fixed the memory leak in no time and I'm sure the other issues won't take long to be resolved either with a little attention and less blaming of Steve Jobs.

Even with all that in mind, he busts his tail trying to do so anyway. What gets me is all the boasting about how MAC's can run Windows as well (bootcamp)...but then you have guys like yourself unwilling to use what is at your disposal. If I knew the MAC versions were well behind in certain applications I use every day, you better believe I'm bootcamping.

Sorry pal, you can rant all day if you want. Im not gonna spoil my mac with windows ever. I've always found a way to avoid that .. This defeats the whole point of having a Mac (or Linux) and ultimately leads to less software being cross-platform, which I'm sure you don't see a problem with. I know windows well enough and had to laugh out loud when I tried windows 7 lately and saw how pathetic microsoft again tries to mimic innovations we've had for ages in Mac OS. The PC owner was so proud showing me all the new stuff which he thought I'd never seen before. So funny (sad?), they always need to make it a little different, less obvious where they get their ideas from when it still is. But their solutions are and have always been delayed and second best, THATS your 'lagging behind' right there.

I'm sure you meant "MAC's" suck, right. Sounds the same...easy mistake to make, cause Max ROCKS, baby!

No, I'm sure he didn't

[AbnRanger]

Yes, I assume it was a windows majority being asked, including people like you who seem to have great fear that development for their systems might suffer when companies open up to other platforms. A quite shortsighted view IMO. Really no surprise. - Your reasoning sounds quite manipulative, like since there must be enough pollsters who have macs they must also have voted no for the most part - which makes no sense unless they hate using their Macs. Please don't project your views onto others. There ARE people different than you who make different choices and are happy with it.

Well, I can imagine that lots of potential Mac users of 3DC are and have been discouraged from purchasing when they see how buggy the trial version is while it eats up all memory and finally crashes. Going so far that Andrew needs to offer refunds. Thats not a good recipe for a return of investment, talk about a chicken and egg problem. Now as soon as he learnt about it, he fixed the memory leak in no time and I'm sure the other issues won't take long to be resolved either with a little attention and less blaming of Steve Jobs.

Sorry pal, you can rant all day if you want. Im not gonna spoil my mac with windows ever. I've always found a way to avoid that .. This defeats the whole point of having a Mac (or Linux) and ultimately leads to less software being cross-platform, which I'm sure you don't see a problem with. I know windows well enough and had to laugh out loud when I tried windows 7 lately and saw how pathetic microsoft again tries to mimic innovations we've had for ages in Mac OS. The PC owner was so proud showing me all the new stuff which he thought I'd never seen before. So funny (sad?), they always need to make it a little different, less obvious where they get their ideas from when it still is. But their solutions are and have always been delayed and second best, THATS your 'lagging behind' right there.

No, I'm sure he didn't

Outside of Windows pesky UAC (easily disabled), I like it just fine, so you can rant all you want to about Microsoft. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit. I don't have fanboy loyalties to PC's, NVidia, ATI, AMD or Intel...or whatever. I just care about what's best for my particular needs. Getting software upgrades the instant they are available and having the ability to build my own PC's inexpensively (generally half what a MAC costs)...is what matters to me.

Expecting the same level of support for MAC's that is available for PC's, is idealistic...just not realistic...for 80-90% of the software out there. Again, you're insulting Andrew because you think there is a double standard...indeed, there is. Good morning, Sunshine! Glad you could join us. You have your beloved Steve Jobs to thank for that, not Andrew.

And as for getting things fixed...you came here to throw a fit in public, instead of trying to get a solution. Like Andrew said, he has to alternate between bugfixes and features. He works his tail off (to find a healthy balance) doing so. In fact, as I stated before, you would have gotten much further to getting the issues addressed if you had simply come here or e-mailed support directly, and said calmly and tactfully..."Here is the problem I'm having..." If you did indeed purchase a license, you got an e-mail that stated clearly "if you have any concerns or issues please feel free to e-mail support at support@3d-coat.com" Why did you decide to ignore that and instead come here to throw a fit?

I appreciate his interaction with the userbase and all his hard work, so when you come here insulting and giving him a hard time, you're stepping on a lot more toes than his...to put it mildly.

[michalis]

Another thing would be using the proper folders like Preferences, Application Support and Documents instead of storing everything that changes during use inside the 3DC Application folder and losing it when you update

As a mac user, I vote no. Its fine at it is now. It reminds me old quark express. LOL I can live with it. If you like to search for pref or support folders, then I understand.

For all users, especially some custodians: This platform war is happening again. I was the victim in the previous one. A mac user always, I'm not in the mood of listening your personal opinions about OSs. As about apps like zbrush. You're not qualified for statements like these anyway. This is my personal opinion and you already know it.

Andrew may stop Mac build development if he thinks so.

In this case he could offer a free upgrade to the windows version.

In this case I need to buy all the adobe package for win too, zbrush for win, two renderers for win... lets forget this. I don't steal software, accept this at least.

Or, in this case, a last build of 3DC stable!!! and stop developing after a statement or something. But a last stable one.

Or, could give us our money back. I hate to say this, I don't even want to.

I, personally, believe that new mac builds are working for the money I paid, I believe that we'll see better and stable builds in next months. And we all happily render after.

[michalis]

A suggestion to administrators of this forum.

Is it possible to create a new support for mac-users-only topic? This is happening here actually.

[Metromot]

Outside of Windows pesky UAC (easily disabled), I like it just fine, so you can rant all you want to about Microsoft. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit. I don't have fanboy loyalties to PC's, NVidia, ATI, AMD or Intel...or whatever. I just care about what's best for my particular needs. Getting software upgrades the instant they are available and having the ability to build my own PC's inexpensively (generally half what a MAC costs)...is what matters to me.

Expecting the same level of support for MAC's that is available for PC's, is idealistic...just not realistic...for 80-90% of the software out there. Again, you're insulting Andrew because you think there is a double standard...indeed, there is. Good morning, Sunshine! Glad you could join us. You have your beloved Steve Jobs to thank for that, not Andrew.

And as for getting things fixed...you came here to throw a fit in public, instead of trying to get a solution. Like Andrew said, he has to alternate between bugfixes and features. He works his tail off (to find a healthy balance) doing so. In fact, as I stated before, you would have gotten much further to getting the issues addressed if you had simply come here or e-mailed support directly, and said calmly and tactfully..."Here is the problem I'm having..." If you did indeed purchase a license, you got an e-mail that stated clearly "if you have any concerns or issues please feel free to e-mail support at support@3d-coat.com" Why did you decide to ignore that and instead come here to throw a fit?

I appreciate his interaction with the userbase and all his hard work, so when you come here insulting and giving him a hard time, you're stepping on a lot more toes than his...to put it mildly.

Wow you get your software updates instantly, I wish I could have that, lmfao...Ok this has become plainly ridiculous. I will stop it right here and say I loose and you win the platform war and hope you be happy.

But stop accusing me of things I did not do and read what I said! I never insulted Andrew no matter how often you suggest that, I was supporting the notion that the Mac version needs more attention and now he's hired a dedicated mac guy which tells me I was right and Andrew agrees even if you may not like that and think this 'tiny fraction' gets more than they deserve. Then, if you personally feel being stepped on your toes by someone challenging your views, I stand guilty for that. But don't claim I stepped on Andrews or anyone else's toes here, unless you really need to expose how you're trying to separate and need others to back you up... But most of all I was NEVER throwing a fit here - But I am right now, thanks to you AGAIN falsely accusing me. Write it down if it helps: I reported the bug, just the facts, in the forum first of all, then emailed support - just the way you like it - then it got fixed and I said thanks to Andrew. Now please have a nice weekend.

[Metromot]

A suggestion to administrators of this forum.

Is it possible to create a new support for mac-users-only topic? This is happening here actually.

Thats a great Idea, I second that. But please restrict people from posting there who can only contribute by saying 'Steve Job is evil, get a PC'

[michalis]

A suggestion to administrators of this forum.

Is it possible to create a new support for mac-users-only topic? This is happening here actually.

AbnRanger will not have the final say about OSs, anyway can we stop this war?

The final word, is, "we paid for the mac build", it is written on the invoice. It is written on the splash screen of this site and wasn't written by him.

'Steve Job is evil, get a PC'

hey, com on.

[Metromot]

I, personally, believe that new mac builds are working for the money I paid, I believe that we'll see better and stable builds in next months. And we all happily render after.

I agree, the latest version is running well and I don't regret buying it. But please consider fixing the trial download version fast, this memory leak is nasty and will put off Mac customers.

[AbnRanger]

You guys take any criticism of the MAC platform so darn personal. Why? Again, I don't have Microsoft hardwired to my psyche. It doesn't hurt my feelings to hear someone mention an obvious fault of Windows. How is it a flame war to simply make an observation that is obvious. It's not Andrew's fault, nor other developers, who go through the same troubles, that Apple switched gears rather abruptly with their OS's, among other pitfalls they experience.

It's much like CUDA vs OpenCL. It's not flaming to point out that CUDA is far more mature than OpenCL and that is one major reason developers are currently ignoring it. You may not like to hear it, but that is just the reality of it. Pointing out that it makes sense for developers to stick with CUDA...CURRENTLY...doesn't make one an NVidia fanboy and an ATI hater. It's the same with the MAC and 3DC...you guys start crying foul at the first remotely negative thing mentioned about your platform...even if it is the absolute truth. Why are you so insecure? The whole point in having the FLEXIBILITY to use BOTH Windows and MAC OS's on the same machine was/is touted as a major advantage. I agree, that is nice...to have that flexibility...so, why not USE IT? I really don't understand. If I needed/wanted to use FinalCut, and PC's had a Bootcamp thingy available, guess what....I'm using it. So, if the MAC version of ZBrush is lagging behind, or 3DC, or whatever....WHY DON'T YOU SIMPLY USE WHAT IS AT YOUR DISPOSAL? If I knew for a certainty that 3DC runs considerably faster on Linux...guess what? I'm going to install a Linux OS, and run 3DC on it.

Andrew had expressed recently just how frustrating it was trying to support MAC OS's when...yes, Steve Jobs, made life hell for developers. Those are his words...and yet you guys know more than he does, aye? Michalis, who are you talking to about ZBrush? You aren't qualified to dictate what I can and cannot say? I know full well how much flak Pixologic caught prior to ZB 4 release, for their version seemingly lying in limbo while the PC version got all the updates. Do you need me to link you to all the forum posts there or on CGTalk and elsewhere?

[Andrew Shpagin]

Ok, I think it is better to stop Mac vs PC war. It will newer end in good way. Anyway, I am supporting all platforms. And it is not hard at least while users keep friendly relations to developer.

And supporting several platforms is big plus to image of company. Also fixing some problems of Mac/Linux lead to fixing Win version problems because gcc compiler ins more sensitive to problems.

Anyway, supporting of multiple platforms is not question to consider, it is inavoidable reality. And even if peoples want to move to other platform it is really hard because of different software licenses also because of habits.

Anyway we will try to improve support of Mac. It will cost mostly not my time but time of testers behind me, it is not big problem.

[michalis]

Excuse me Andrew but I thought ...

It will cost mostly not my time but time of testers behind me, it is not big problem

I thought I was a tester too, for one moment.

AbnRanger. All these about zbrush are in your imagination only. Now it runs perfectly on macs and you may noticed how many mac users are there.

You aren't qualified indeed. And you wont have the last word here. You were offensive enough. Its not the first time, stop it please.

Post your creations, you know that I have only nice words for this, lets talk about art, I feel much better this way.

[AbnRanger]

Excuse me Andrew but I thought ...

I thought I was a tester too, for one moment.

AbnRanger. All these about zbrush are in your imagination only. Now it runs perfectly on macs and you may noticed how many mac users are there.

You aren't qualified indeed. And you wont have the last word here. You were offensive enough. Its not the first time, stop it please.

Post your creations, you know that I have only nice words for this, lets talk about art, I feel much better this way.

Really....I'm imagining things, aye? Not qualified, aye? Do you want to put some money behind that statement?

What I said is, that if you go to the Pixologic forums, there was a LOT of flak from MAC users prior to ZB 4 being released. The point being (as you well know) that the "grass is not always so green on the other side of the fence." The issue with support for MAC OS's isn't unique to 3DC. That is a FACT. This thread started by an individual taking personal shots at Andrew for not giving him his "money's worth" regarding the MAC version. In the process of defending Andrew's post, I pointed out that there are very legit reasons why (the MAC version of 3DC is behind to some degree).

I asked them about a 64bit MAC version, during Siggraph...on behalf of guys like yourself. I hope you have the same level of support as Win or Linux. I don't think anyone here wants to see it any different...so stop trying to throw the FLAME WAR card with every drop of a hat.

from ZBrush Central:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=77864&page=36&pp=15

"I have been running Macs for 15 years now and the occasional PC' date=' as all my other workflow pasrts are based on OSX software. This year I have really found myself grinding my teeth awaiting for the MAC update of Zbrush and with my workflow demands I have been driven towards rebooting to bootcamp on many occasion. Now I am willing to give up on Pixologics promises about the MAC updates but not the software itself as it is a main part of my workflow. So your right, it doesnt really leave us much choice, but to shift over to Windows in order to stay ahead and maximise prodcutivity. hmmm, maybe this is the plan huh"[/i']

"Oh' date=' I wouldn't say I'm happy with the Mac support, or that it's not a problem. Not at all. It's a very frustrating problem. Just that right now, I don't have any really good alternatives. Or at least, none I'm ready to take just yet. However, I do regularly consider my options."[/i']

Now, Michalis...want some ketchup to go with that shoe leather?

[michalis]

@abnranger

What you wrote here are just fragments of reality.

I know you more than you can imagine.

Please, stop this and lets concentrate in art. Post your creations and you'll find a friend, me.

Post your thoughts about OSs and you'll find an opponent. Probably.