Member Chuckpie Posted February 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I remember seeing some instructions about creating hair. Could someone point me to it? Also I see that Andrew has said he planned to do more with hair and fur, does anyone know about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I remember seeing some instructions about creating hair. Could someone point me to it? Also I see that Andrew has said he planned to do more with hair and fur, does anyone know about that? I plan to do fur/hairs layers in near future. So it could be interesting to know how is it done in other programs (Maybe Carrara, maya, Max). If someone has experience in this topic, please share it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 18, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Carrara has a very nice Hair implimentation but it is buggy and still to slow but some of the functionality and features behind the tool is what is interesting but features are limited as well. ZBrush has a tool that paints fiber geometry. Some of the tech behind that tool is interesting but is limited in only creating fur as far as i know and i dont think it can be styled very much and if it could i can't imagine it being easy. I think it is called the Fiber Brush. Cinema4D had some nice looking Hair also but how easy the tools are to use and how limted i would not know. I never owned the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wailingmonkey Posted February 19, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 BenR (username on xsibase.com) has developed a plugin for XSI that I've been looking at purchasing, but hadn't the 'need' yet. Perhaps you could both work together or at least he may point you in a nice direction? His link is here: http://shaders.moederogall.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 19, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 That XSI Plugin is pretty darn impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 19, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Can anyone explain to me, in which way 'hair' should be part of 3DB? To my understanding hair is kinda postprocess filter (in any 3D package) that emulates the strange optical effects of hair. The only thing you actually model is the guides for long hair or maybe hair blades. But the look of hair is not 'modeled'... That's how I thought how hair works. Does anybody know a techniques that might work on a 3DB to 3D package or 3D engine workflow? The only possible way I could imagine would be sculpting kinda fish bowl onto a head and calling the surface 'hair'. And let the target application manage the look (e.g. game engine or 3D package). Even a very dense normal map (4096) wouldn't work for realistic look, hair is too fine... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chuckpie Posted February 19, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Can anyone explain to me, in which way 'hair' should be part of 3DB?To my understanding hair is kinda postprocess filter (in any 3D package) that emulates the strange optical effects of hair. The only thing you actually model is the guides for long hair or maybe hair blades. But the look of hair is not 'modeled'... That's how I thought how hair works. Does anybody know a techniques that might work on a 3DB to 3D package or 3D engine workflow? The only possible way I could imagine would be sculpting kinda fish bowl onto a head and calling the surface 'hair'. And let the target application manage the look (e.g. game engine or 3D package). Even a very dense normal map (4096) wouldn't work for realistic look, hair is too fine... mike Mike I use Lightwave and the plug in for hair is difficult to use and does not do the job well. As far as why Andrew wants to include hair/fur I assume it is because he wishes to have a complete detailing package. I am sure if anyone can come up with a decent hair/fur tool, Andrew can and will. I also agree the XSI plug in looks good but since I use Lightwave and I did not see that the plug in would work for Lightwave I cannot comment on how good it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 The main reason why I want to do it - it is easy to implement and very bright feature, it is compartible with layers in great way. Also a question to LW users - does it supports 2 point polygons (lines) as a renderable primitives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chuckpie Posted February 19, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 The main reason why I want to do it - it is easy to implement and very bright feature, it is compartible with layers in great way. Also a question to LW users - does it supports 2 point polygons (lines) as a renderable primitives? Andrew As I have stated I am far from an expert on Lightwave, however I can tell you that one can create 2 points, select them and press create polygon and Lightwave will create a polygon line between the two points that can be colored and that line will render in Layout. I hope this helps and if there is any other tests you would like me to try just ask. Thanks Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 19, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 For long hair(or any hair) in Lightwave you would use 2-point poly chains (a chain o 2point polys that is welded together, err.., you know what I mean?). Ok, if you would like 3DB to sculpt the hair guides (2 pnt polys chains) than I vote for it. That makes totally sense. @Chuckpie, yes saslite/sasquatch seems a bit old, but people manage to get quite nice results with it. If 3DB could make a nice haircut it will gain some people that didn't thought about it before. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 19, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 If it's fast, has easy interface and lot's of features and one could create any hair/fur type imaginable. I am all for having better Hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 19, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 @ Sethren: Andrew has yet to say something about to what degree he wants to implement hair, but it's likely that you will use 3DB to style the hair (creating and shaping the hair guides). How fur and hair looks in the end is determined by the actual renderengine you use. Ok, Andrew could spent a nice realtime shader for 3DB, but you aren't able to use it in your xsi or lightwave etc picture, you would have to use something like bhairy, sasquatch and the like to render the hair skeleton that you built with 3DB. (everything just assumptions by me) mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 20, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 @ Sethren:Andrew has yet to say something about to what degree he wants to implement hair, but it's likely that you will use 3DB to style the hair (creating and shaping the hair guides). How fur and hair looks in the end is determined by the actual renderengine you use. Ok, Andrew could spent a nice realtime shader for 3DB, but you aren't able to use it in your xsi or lightwave etc picture, you would have to use something like bhairy, sasquatch and the like to render the hair skeleton that you built with 3DB. (everything just assumptions by me) mike I had given Andrew some ideas i had about hair and fur a few days ago and he seemed very enthused about my ideas i had besides his own which are wonderful of course. Honestly i don't mind having to shade the hairs in another app using means of a ansiotropic shader for example so the plain hair mesh itself should not be an issue atleast for me it wouldn't be. Exporting the hair UV and painting it in Photoshop or PaintShopPro would work well also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Modeled hair would work not in all situations (too limited) but would be a good addition for game models or models you won't see close-up (archviz). Thus I think Andrew should in any case think about styling 2-pt poly chains, cause only with these you could do photorealistic hair for hi-end models. Would be cool to have both mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 20, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Perhaps there could be a feature that is some type of polygon reducer which in effect would take the high-poly modeled hair and converge the 2-pt poly chains into a single solid shaped low-poly hair model with each hair strand being a displaced bump rather then seperate geometry as in the high poly version. Perhaps these two options could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 21, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Lightwave gets new hair and fur in 9.5. I'm keen on seeing it, beta should start early march. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chuckpie Posted February 21, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Lightwave gets new hair and fur in 9.5.I'm keen on seeing it, beta should start early march. mike I saw that today on their website. Do you think they or Andrew could come up a lightwave plug in that could replace real flow 4? Real flow has always been way overpriced. Andrew, maybe move hair to the back burner for lightwave and move a water for lightwave and other 3d apps. plug in to the front burner. I'll send $150.00 tomorrow for a beta easy to use version of liquid. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 21, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I saw that today on their website. Do you think they or Andrew could come up a lightwave plug in that could replace real flow 4? Real flow has always been way overpriced. Andrew, maybe move hair to the back burner for lightwave and move a water for lightwave and other 3d apps. plug in to the front burner. I'll send $150.00 tomorrow for a beta easy to use version of liquid. Chuck Why detract from his current project "3d-brush" for a fluid simulation plugin? It would take a very long time to create a plugin on that scale. Nextlimit is a big company and have been around for awhile. I mean fluid sims are very hard to write code for i would imagine and this is probably the reason why they are so pricey becuase of the complex calculations and code involved to even make fluid move realistically in a decent fashion. That makes no sense. Besides his skills are in mesh modeling and procedural textures, not fluid sims. Why abandon the possibility to have realistic hair and fur tools and quite possibly the easiest to use out of all of others currently available? And where are we getting the idea that Andrew is doing a plugin for Lighwave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 21, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Chuckpie, hehe, then you could also ask him if he renews LW's character animation toolset? Or if he could unify modeler and layout... Funny idea Cpie, but I guess it's wishful thinking. Andrew is an awesome programmer, but that doesn't mean that he should solve all problems in all applications. Andrew makes a 3D paint software. He's no lightwave coder. If you want a RF4 replacement you should either flood D-storm with emails (they started a physX based liquid sim) or write trueArts Sensei, he can do everything in LW world. I just wonder how you get the idea, Andrew should do that??? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chuckpie Posted February 21, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Chuckpie, hehe, then you could also ask him if he renews LW's character animation toolset? Or if he could unify modeler and layout...Funny idea Cpie, but I guess it's wishful thinking. Andrew is an awesome programmer, but that doesn't mean that he should solve all problems in all applications. Andrew makes a 3D paint software. He's no lightwave coder. If you want a RF4 replacement you should either flood D-storm with emails (they started a physX based liquid sim) or write trueArts Sensei, he can do everything in LW world. I just wonder how you get the idea, Andrew should do that??? mike Mike I am not saying Andrew should do a liquid program and/or plug in, I said if he did do a liquid PI I would be the first in line to give it a go. The fact is he is a very good programmer in c++ and I have no doubt if he decided to create something for liquid I am sure he could accomplish it. He is committed to 3d brush at this time, which makes me very happy but in the future he could work on different things to increase his income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 21, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Here is some information about the new hair system in lightwave 9.5. http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80311 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 22, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 yeah, but please don't judge it by the pictures. These are just some tests to show that the hair is showing up in reflections, is influenced by GI etc. No beauty shots at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 22, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Indeed, i'd never consoder these final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sethren Posted February 22, 2008 Member Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Alrighty, some rendered hair. http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.ph...mp;d=1203657547 http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.ph...mp;d=1203657533 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted February 22, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I think thats sasquatch and g2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member StereoMike Posted February 22, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 geo is right (i closely watch that thread ) mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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