About Blender Cycles rendering normal maps: info

[Carlosan]

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?216113-Brecht-s-easter-egg-surprise-Modernizing-shading-and-rendering&p=2216058&viewfull=1#post2216058

Agus3D has worked on moving bumpmapping to per-shader level, and sooner or later that should include support for normal maps.

Since Bumpmapping (or Normal Mapping) isn't really considered a displacement method, in the future there will be a separate displacement option, too.

When can you expect this change to enter Blender? At some point in the future. There's no deadlines involved.

The posts below the upper link add a nice information/discussion about NM vs BM vs VD, if any1 like to read.

[TimmyZDesign]

Thank you! Very helpful for me.

[michalis]

In fact, as cycles is now, bumpmaps are linked into displacement socket.

There's some reason to be this way. Under render properties panel, there's an experimental option that enables bump+displacement method.

Still experimental and not quite functional. It's under development and they go for micro displacement (P-renderman like).

We have to wait, such methods produce excellent results.

Normal maps can be supported otherwise, but there're questions on how they can really work under a pathtracer.

IMO, more important is, to make cycles capable to bake on UVs. After all, there's the old BI and Game engines in blender and they support nor maps.

Most important is to be able to export nice models for a VG engine than render in cycles. This engine is for movies-animations-archi vis-stills.

[geo_n]

How does cycles deal with render elements, render buffers? Is it flexible to break up scenes for compositing? I heard before that a gpu renderer would not be suitable as a renderer for compositing and that most renders will be in camera.

[michalis]

Geo_n

A presentation of new blender 2.64,

Of course you can brake to layers, buffers etc. A new tiled render system solved some GPU memory issues.

Our good friend Digman already posted blender compositing on this forum

[Carlosan]

normal map support added to nodes

version 51267

[AbnRanger]

normal map support added to nodes

version 51267

Fur Reel?

[michalis]

Abn,

Visit my thread on finished works and say some good word instead.

[digman]

Your image is not working and can you post your node setup, thanks...

[AbnRanger]

But how do you access this? Couldn't find any download info on it in the thread.

[TimmyZDesign]

There are a couple of 51267 builds on Graphicall.org

Here is the link:

http://graphicall.org/?keywords=cycles

[Carlosan]

[michalis]

There's something hidden on this last per BSDF bump mapping.

It unlocks the experimental mode (under camera properties)

Now it's possible to use bumps and displacements together. So, displacements for 3-4 subd, the rest as bumps (and possibly a second map, baked on this subd level).

In the previous versions we had to use displ modifier+subsurf combo. Now, lot of possibilities.

Normal maps support isn't ready yet, we have to wait a few more days. They're trying for a solution on the space that these maps are baked. Tangent word is a bit confusing. lol

The funny thing is that normal maps are already working. But, wait for the appropriate solution.

[digman]

@Carlosa I had seen that node setup or one similar at blenderartist. I was looking for a node setup using a true baked normal map from 3DCoat. That does not work in my test, so as Michalis said baked normal maps are not quite ready.

[Carlosan]

this ?

done with r51275

[digman]

That is taking a grayscale image and converting it into a normal map. What I see there is a normal map created through the normal channel of the BSFD node. Can you show me a baked tangent space normal map from 3DCoat with the diffuse map as well applied in Blender cycles... This is what I have been talking about... If it is possible now, I would like to see the node setup... Also in any setup the normal map color can not mix with your diffuse map color...

EDIT:

Ok, I got a node setup that works but the tangent space normal map from 3DCoat is indented instead of extruded. I will keep working on it to see if I can get the normal map to appear correctly...

By the way you do not need the texture cord node... the image node by default will use the uv map. I just forgot to remove the one attached to the image color diffuse. I might have to take normal map into shader map pro 2 to work on it...

node.

Edit 2:

I took the normal map into SM2 and inverted the map so the extrusions would work in Blender but nope seem to have no effect at all.

I think we still have to wait for the tangent space normal maps to done so they work correctly. Hopefully we will not have to wait long.

Remember, I am just experimenting and in no means am I a Blender pro.

[michalis]

Normal maps used as bumps.

Let's avoid this, shall we?

You can achieve the same by connecting the normal map to the old displacement, directly. It is simply converted to a B&W image.

[digman]

You are correct Michalis, no true tangent space normal maps as yet in Blender Cyles as I found out in my testing and last edited statement...

[michalis]

Meanwhile, blender internal.

A ~5k autopo in 3dcoat, baked n_maps and just subsurf once in blender.

I don't want to post the cycles + these nmaps LOL, it looks ridiculous.

The original was a ~800k dyntopo blender sculpting.

[Carlosan]

for 2.65 release:

"Cycles: Brecht van Lommel will add some more nodes, but nothing major (ao, normal map, transmission bsdf)."

[michalis]

AO isn't what I was expecting. We'll see about it.

normal map is considered as not major? Or quite the opposite? That we won't see normaps support soon?

Sorry, I don't understand well the announcements of Brecht.

There is another development in the background, or I should say underground.

It's a bug fix in multires mode. (VBOs work now, there was some instability in recent builds)

Now, having a decent GPU (2-3 years old) and some RAM, 6 GB or better a little more (nothing fancy) .

Go up to 30-40 M multires sculpting. Works like in butter. Very similar to the zbrush, MB performance! Under nVidias or ATIs (the second perform a little better)

It's the after retopo sculpting thing. Something that still don't exist in 3dcoat - MV mode.

[michalis]

http://wiki.blender....More#Normal_Map

Now, cycles supports normal mapping. At last.

Excellent results, just download a latest build from graphicall

http://www.graphicall.org/

Here's a quick test on an old project of mine. Venus counts 10K +n_maps. (baked in 3dcoat, some years ago)

[AbnRanger]

Does Cycles work with SSS Shaders (live updates)?

[TimmyZDesign]

Does Cycles work with SSS Shaders (live updates)?

You can see it updating pretty quickly at about the 18 minute mark in this video:

[TimmyZDesign]

Now, cycles supports normal mapping. At last.

Hurray!

[AbnRanger]

Sweet. Guess I'm going to have to start exploring Blender now. Cycles looks to be too nice to ignore any longer. Even VRay RT can't do SSS.

[michalis]

The above video tutorial isn't a good one. There isn't any practical use on it. You can't construct a subsurf imitating a scull, every time you need a nice sss effect.

There is a nice fake SSS via ray length node, though. It's a little complicated but just append a ready made group node and do the job.

It's fake and works well only under certain light setups only.

There isn't any real SSS in cycles, yet. It's coming soon though.

For those who like to test the new normal map support, here a few tips.

1. You have to set the color profile of the n_tex_map to non-color. It's important!

2. A node to reduce-add power to the n_map is coming soon. You can add a color-gamma node but it's not accurate. Just wait a few more days.

3. In Cycles, there's a nasty termination issue (in octane as well). So, low poly mashes (even using smooth shading) produce nasty quad artifacts between light and shadow areas.

The only way is to add a subsurf-subdivide modifier, it will sent the hi subd data to the renderer only. Not a big issue. But, having an already subdivided a few times mesh, it's a pity to not take advantage of this opportunity to add a displacement map.

@Abn

I posted all these news, having you in mind, mostly. LOL

If you like to start learning cycles, I can help. It's not difficult IMO, I actually find it a wonderful fresh UI. Trust me.

Cycles is and will always be under development. To develop a new, advanced renderer is never an easy task.

[digman]

I deleted my other post as I saw the information was already added here. I will post the information about the node setup though.

Set your 3DCoat normal map exporting in preferences to:

Normals calculation method to "Maya Normals"

Normal Map export to "Maya, Blender"

Blender normal map node setup in picture.

Tested and works very good so far...

http://builder.blender.org/download/

Edit: The link to read up on the new node. It is under the Tangent heading.

Yes, you do select "Non Color Data" in the image texture node for the tangent space normal map to work correctly.

The node setup just shows the normal map setup, no other except the diffuse color on the BSDF node.

http://wiki.blender....cles/Nodes/More

@Michalis, I remember that sculpture, miss seeing your work here... though I do see it at Blenderartist...

[michalis]

Yeah, now I can use 3dc/PPP + cycles. So, you may see me posting soon. LOL

The "non color data" is very important ! So, be careful.

Maya space works fine, confirmed.

But, there always is the terminator issue in cycles (in octane too). So, a few subdivisions are needed for smoother rendering of a cage mesh + nor_maps.

A fine opportunity to use these 2-3 subd for real displacement. So, after retopo+UV in 3dc, you may subdivide 2-3 times before baking in PPP. (to have the appropriate n_maps, on this level of subd)

There's a new decimation modifier in recent blender builds. It can reconstruct subdivisions resulting to a multires mesh. Excellent solution, avoiding displacement maps, friendly for rigging animating etc etc.