AMD's CEO and CTO on Radeon VII, ray tracing and beyond

[AbnRanger]

That's cool. I saw mixed reviews about the Liqtech. But as far as AIO's, I think they are the only manufacturer that makes a model specifically for ThreadRipper CPU's. Just sharing my experience, and BTW, the Dark Rock Pro TR4 doesn't impede the RAM nor the PCI-E slots. It's the best and quietest cooler I've ever owned, by far.

[L'Ancien Regime]

Actually there's lots of custom water blocks for Threadripper that sell for $75 or so. The only problem is that's just the waterblock. The entire system will hit you for $800 at least. And it's high maintenance and so risky and also outside my competency. If nothing else works I might be driven to such a solution but for now the Corsair is zero maintenance; comes pre filled and sealed and ready to go.

 

https://www.singularitycomputers.com/shop/watercooling/protium-d5-reservoir-combo-150mm-polished-acrylic/

 

$217 USD just for a resevoir with built in pump..

 

In one sense it's a lot of money but in another perspective, how much will  annual maintenance on a Porsche Targa cost you?  I've heard $6500 but I don't know. I know a guy who had a black one with glove leather interior and you wouldn't believe the girlfriends he effortlessly got with that thing; little rich girls that were 10's. So maybe it's worth it. 

 

Also since this is ostensibly a thread on the Radeon VII and we've veered off onto cooling components, I was looking at the rear plate of the  Radeon VII and it appears that this is a setup for cooling its GPU. I suspect but I don't know. Sure looks like that's for mounting brackets but there's no smooth GPU heat sink to press the cold plate to with layered heat paste. I'm a bit puzzled...

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[L'Ancien Regime]

Cryengine enables real time ray tracing for AMD GPUs.

 

https://wccftech.com/cryengine-noir-demo-runs-raytracing-amd-nvidia-gpus-non-rtx-graphics-cards/

 

 

[AbnRanger]

On 3/14/2019 at 4:42 PM, L'Ancien Regime said:

Actually there's lots of custom water blocks for Threadripper that sell for $75 or so. The only problem is that's just the waterblock. The entire system will hit you for $800 at least. And it's high maintenance and so risky and also outside my competency. If nothing else works I might be driven to such a solution but for now the Corsair is zero maintenance; comes pre filled and sealed and ready to go.

 

https://www.singularitycomputers.com/shop/watercooling/protium-d5-reservoir-combo-150mm-polished-acrylic/

 

$217 USD just for a resevoir with built in pump..

 

In one sense it's a lot of money but in another perspective, how much will  annual maintenance on a Porsche Targa cost you?  I've heard $6500 but I don't know. I know a guy who had a black one with glove leather interior and you wouldn't believe the girlfriends he effortlessly got with that thing; little rich girls that were 10's. So maybe it's worth it. 

 

Also since this is ostensibly a thread on the Radeon VII and we've veered off onto cooling components, I was looking at the rear plate of the  Radeon VII and it appears that this is a setup for cooling its GPU. I suspect but I don't know. Sure looks like that's for mounting brackets but there's no smooth GPU heat sink to press the cold plate to with layered heat paste. I'm a bit puzzled...

 

To watercool the GPU, you'd have to take the stock cooling off, including the fan shroud. You'd also need a waterblock to fit it. The back plate is just for protection and rigidity. It has some ventilation holes to allow some of the heat, coming off the bottom/back to dissipate. That bracket you see just screws into the copper block on the front side. It's not for mounting anything on the backside.

I have never fooled with custom water-cooling. Too costly and too much trouble, IMO. I'm gonna stick with Air Coolers, going forward, as long as they are effective. It's a lot less headache and maintenance, and you never have to worry if the pump is gonna fail or leaking into your system.

[Falconius]

I think custom watercooling is more for those interested in making their machine a work of art and have it around for a few years than it is for people who are using their machines to work and frequently upgrade.  The sealed systems are just better in terms of ease of use, risk, and maintenance.

[AbnRanger]

4 hours ago, Falconius said:

I think custom watercooling is more for those interested in making their machine a work of art and have it around for a few years than it is for people who are using their machines to work and frequently upgrade.  The sealed systems are just better in terms of ease of use, risk, and maintenance.

+1. After the trouble I had with cooling the ThreadRipper on a Corsair AIO, I have decided to use no more AIO's going forward. It wasn't just the fact that the coldplate didn't fully cover the chip. That was the main reason it didn't properly cool. It also gave me fits, trying monitor and tweak the fan speed and pump speed, with the CorsairLINK software. Much of the time, if I raised the fan speed, the temps would, instead of going down, go through the roof.

That made me wonder whether or not the pump was going bad and whether or not I should return it to the manufacturer for a replacement. Which would mean I'd be without use of my computer for a week or longer, waiting for them to process the order. I've also heard of some random instances of them leaking, which can cost a ***** ton of $$$ replacing all the shorted components. I was talking with someone local, who just had that happen to him. He had a Corsair H60. He came home from work and found it had leaked fluid all over his system, and he was in the process of having to buy brand new parts all over again.

It just isn't worth the hassle and risk. It doesn't necessarily cool any better than Air Coolers, so why pay almost twice the $$$ for a big problem waiting to happen?

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

If it's giving me problem I take it out and replace it with something else. $160 is not a big deal.  Dinner for 2 in a decent restaurant

I read all the reviews on New Egg and Amazon and not a single complaint about leaking Corsairs. And Amazon and New Egg are replete with negative bot reviews slandering products in a very forumulaic manner.

Edited March 18, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

1 hour ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

If it's giving me problem I take it out and replace it with something else. $160 is not a big deal.  Dinner for 2 in a decent restaurant

I read all the reviews on New Egg and Amazon and not a single complaint about leaking Corsairs. And Amazon and New Egg are replete with negative bot reviews slandering products in a very forumulaic manner.

I understand replacing the part. It has a 5yr warranty, IIRC. However, it leaking doesn't simply mean you would replace the cooler, but it would short most of your internal components (CPU, MB, RAM, GRAPHICS CARDS, M.2 drivers, etc.). Low risk or not, it's a risk you can 100% avoid, and still get the same kind of performance + low noise. Plus, should the pump start going out, you'd have to spend a lot of time, like I did, trying to diagnose what's wrong. Then, you'd have to send it back for replacement and that that would mean going at least a week or so, for them to receive it, process it and send you a replacement. I hope it works well for you, but having gone through a lot of hassle with an AIO, the experience has impacted my decision, dramatically. Too many points of potential failure + nearly twice the cost. No thanks. I'll pass.

 

[AbnRanger]

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

10 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I understand replacing the part. It has a 5yr warranty, IIRC. However, it leaking doesn't simply mean you would replace the cooler, but it would short most of your internal components (CPU, MB, RAM, GRAPHICS CARDS, M.2 drivers, etc.). Low risk or not, it's a risk you can 100% avoid, and still get the same kind of performance + low noise. Plus, should the pump start going out, you'd have to spend a lot of time, like I did, trying to diagnose what's wrong. Then, you'd have to send it back for replacement and that that would mean going at least a week or so, for them to receive it, process it and send you a replacement. I hope it works well for you, but having gone through a lot of hassle with an AIO, the experience has impacted my decision, dramatically. Too many points of potential failure + nearly twice the cost. No thanks. I'll pass.

 

I might also have a stroke and be paralyzed. I'll be alone and tossed into a hospital with evil nurses. Instead of changing my diapers, once they figure out that no one will ever visit me, they'll treat me with abuse. They'll leave me in a bed full of my own feces. I'll be fully conscious but unable to talk or move.  I know this because I worked as a janitor in a cancer hospital for 2.5 years and saw it with my own eyes. Terminal care nurses are a bitter bunch and old smelly working class men are not on their popular list. It will be hell on earth. I should just commit suicide now and have done with it before this inevitable disaster befalls me.

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[Tony Nemo]

Please don't! I have found your contribution to the forum as one of it's more enlightening.

[AbnRanger]

12 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

I might also have a stroke and be paralyzed. I'll be alone and tossed into a hospital with evil nurses. Instead of changing my diapers, once they figure out that no one will ever visit me, they'll treat me with abuse. They'll leave me in a bed full of my own feces. I'll be fully conscious but unable to talk or move.  I know this because I worked as a janitor in a cancer hospital for 2.5 years and saw it with my own eyes. Terminal care nurses are a bitter bunch and old smelly working class men are not on their popular list. It will be hell on earth. I should just commit suicide now and have done with it before this inevitable disaster befalls me.

 

No worries. I was just relaying the troubles I just had with a similar AIO, and a local person who just had his system ruined by a leaking AIO. 

I hope it works well for you.

[L'Ancien Regime]

Hope it's seated right; I want it to post first time I power up.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[L'Ancien Regime]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:08 PM, AbnRanger said:

No worries. I was just relaying the troubles I just had with a similar AIO, and a local person who just had his system ruined by a leaking AIO. 

I hope it works well for you.

I apologize for having been a bit sarcastic but this is a bit stressful for me...please try to understand...

 

That Dark Rock air cooler is too big for my case but this version of the Nocua is just the right size;

 

 

 

 

This Noctua is dirt cheap. I'll be getting it as well and testing out both form factors. The H100i Platinum cold plate overhangs the Threadripper in width dimension but leaves almost 3/16" of an inch uncovered at each end longtitudinally.

I've planned this build for a long time and it was always going to be sort of experimental for me. Same with the OS and virtualization (eventually). That ASROCK Fatal1ty is built for virtualization pass through (to various hardware) technology

 

 

 

 

I'll start with 2x 16GB for now and see if the system posts when i power up before installing the rest.

 

 

Off to the store to get some isopropyl alcohol to wipe down the CPU heat sink before applying the pre heat paste applied cold plate.

 

 

M2; 1TB the size of a stick of Wrigley's chewing gum

Edited March 22, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

Looks good so far. What thermal paste are you applying? Also, when you can, try to get 2 more of those RAM modules because there are some scenes in 3DCoat, with just a character and all their objects, like clothing, belts, buckles, buttons, hats/helmets, hair, etc. that can push your RAM limit to beyond 32GB. I don't know about Houdini, but when I was trying to work through some VFX scenes (tutorials) in Blender, with it's simulation tools, it wanted to eat 32GB of RAM and more, just during the simulation.

2ndly, one of the big, distinguishing features of ThreadRipper CPU's is it's Quad-Channel memory. If you don't have 4 modules, you cannot take advantage of that. It's not a deal breaker, but something to consider later on. Here's the rig I have, with the Dark Rock Pro TR4. No problems with PCI lane clearance or otherwise. It really lives up to the company's name, "Be Quiet."

[L'Ancien Regime]

 

posted first time out.

 

 

That nasty racket was the CPU cable pushing against the pump hoses. I moved it and everything became very peaceful

 

 

 

 

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

OK, you win Abn Ranger..getting that Dark Rock TR4 cooler...

96C in idle is ridiculous. That pump didn't work at all out of the box or if it did it was rattling like crazy and then died within seconds.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

10 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

OK, you win Abn Ranger..getting that Dark Rock TR4 cooler...

96C in idle is ridiculous. That pump didn't work at all out of the box or if it did it was rattling like crazy and then died within seconds.

Ouch! Yeah, 96C may indicte it is was not installed right, because rattling noise sounds like it's not seated properly. However, it could have been installed/seated properly and that noise could have been a bad pump. Before sending it back, you might try to reseat the water block, and remember to tighten in a star/staggered fashion, little by little on each one, so they are tightened uniformly.  

If you are sending it back, though, I think you'll be thrilled with Dark Rock Pro TR4. I hope it fits your case. It's not really any taller than a Noctua, so, if a Noctua cooler fits, the Dark Rock cooler will, too.

[L'Ancien Regime]

I did reseat it, after cleaning off the stock paste, with an entire syringe of Thermal Grizzly paste carefully spread to the edge of the cold plate, evenly. Same deal. 

https://forum.level1techs.com/t/2950x-with-asrock-fatal1ty-x399-pro-gaming-build-problems/140287/79

 

All the radiator fans ran well, all the glowing LEDs lit up. Yeah, maybe if they spent less time on LEDs and more on making awesome cooling devices that might be a selling point..I've been getting more and more angry this month trying to shop for a cooler and having to wade through a slough of LED nonsense to get to the important essentials. 

 

And I've carefully measured the distance from the face of the CPU heatsink to the top edge of the case. Both Noctua and Dark Rock are 1/4" too tall. Not a problem. There is a Noctua with a  TR4 cold plate that fits but it doesn't cool as well as the biggest Noctua or Dark Rock because the radiator is smaller. The biggest Noctua blocks the closes DDR4 slot on the motherboard. So Dark Rock is the one to go to.

Edited March 28, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

3 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

I did reseat it, after cleaning off the stock paste, with an entire syringe of Thermal Grizzly paste carefully spread to the edge of the cold plate, evenly. Same deal. 

https://forum.level1techs.com/t/2950x-with-asrock-fatal1ty-x399-pro-gaming-build-problems/140287/79

 

All the radiator fans ran well, all the glowing LEDs lit up. Yeah, maybe if they spent less time on LEDs and more on making awesome cooling devices that might be a selling point..I've been getting more and more angry this month trying to shop for a cooler and having to wade through a slough of LED nonsense to get to the important essentials. 

 

And I've carefully measured the distance from the face of the CPU heatsink to the top edge of the case. Both Noctua and Dark Rock are 1/4" too tall. Not a problem. There is a Noctua with a  TR4 cold plate that fits but it doesn't cool as well as the biggest Noctua or Dark Rock because the radiator is smaller. The biggest Noctua blocks the closes DDR4 slot on the motherboard. So Dark Rock is the one to go to.

I hear ya on the RGB lighting. I don't care about that. People who are more concerned about showing off their gear than the actual performance of the gear, do care about that stuff. That's one reason I like the Dark Rock cooler. It looks good, but it's not flashing with rainbow colors. It just works really well. That frustration you feel is exactly what I was going through. Sad though, that a brand new unit would be DOA. 

It's too bad you didn't record the problem and put it on youtube, so other people can see. The few bad reviews of the Enermax Liqtech II TR4 AIO's are really hurting their sales, so it's only fair that Corsair get some some bad publicity for a bad product.

As for CPU Air Cooler clearance, that's why I prefer to go with full-size towers, so I have maximum airflow and clearance in the case. I only have one system in my office, so I'm not that concerned about it taking up space.

[L'Ancien Regime]

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-20-radeon-rx-graphics-card-ray-tracing-gcn-architecture-rumor/

 

AMD Navi 20 GPU Allegedly Supports Ray Tracing and Enhanced GCN Graphics Architecture – May End Up Being Much Faster Than RTX 2080 Ti

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

Installed the Dark Rock TR4 and also seated the second 32 GB of RAM in their correct slots and fired it up; getting a solid 64C. I used the Thermal Paste that came with the Dark Rock air cooler.

 

 

That glowing Radeon VII logo sure looks pretty.

 

And all sitting behind 4320 Joules of surge protection. It's nice that I didn't have to spend a fortune on a UPS just to get surge protection.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

That looks pretty cool. Try boosting the clock to 4.0Ghz and see how it performs. I set my CPU voltage to 1.34. You might be able to set your voltage a bit lower.

[L'Ancien Regime]

56 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

That looks pretty cool. Try boosting the clock to 4.0Ghz and see how it performs. I set my CPU voltage to 1.34. You might be able to set your voltage a bit lower.

I plugged in the two front fans and the CPU temp dropped to a steady 64C. I've got three more 120mm fans for that mid case rack so that will probably lower it a bit more.

 

What's your temperature range between idle and load?

Edited April 6, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

3 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

I plugged in the two front fans and the CPU temp dropped to a steady 64C. I've got three more 120mm fans for that mid case rack so that will probably lower it a bit more.

 

What's your temperature range between idle and load?

It's 64C at stock settings? That's strange. It may not be seated properly, or you may have put too much thermal paste, down, perhaps? Mine doesn't reach 64C unless it's under a load, such as rendering, and that's at 4Ghz across all cores. Under normal use, it's at about 30C.

[AbnRanger]

....I have

3x140mm fans blowing cold air from the Front 

2x140mm fans blowing cold air from the Bottom

2x 200mm fans exhausting heat from the Top

1x 200mm fan on the side, blowing cold air onto the graphics card and MB components.

This is the Gamer's Nexus review for the Case:

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

It's running 61.5C now with three additional fans put in. What temps do you get under load?

 

 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2950x-review,8.html

 

To what extent should I take this offset for consistent fan policy into account with my CPU temp? My radiator feels pretty cool to the touch. Even the heat pipes down at the bottom of the radiator are quite cool.

Is your CPUID HWMonitor taking into account this AMD Offset for consistent fan policy or is it giving a direct readout of the True Junction Temp (Tdie)?

 

So if my UEFI is reporting CPU Temp (tCTL) of 61.5 C - tCTL offset for Fan Policy  of 27 C = True Junction Temperature (Tdie) of 34.5 C ??

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime

[AbnRanger]

Between 60-65C under constant load @ 4Ghz across all cores. Is that temperature only when the case door is attached/closed? Try plugging the CPU cooler fan connector to another CPU fan header. My MB has CPU fan and CPU fan Optional. It also has one for CPU pump (for AIO's). With your BIOS showing a Water Pump Speed, that makes me think you have the Dark Rock Pro TR4 fan connector plugged into the Water Pump header and not the main CPU fan header, on your MB.

Also, a thick layer of thermal paste is not good. A light, even layer on the whole CPU die is best. With decent airflow through the case, your CPU temps should be around 30C when idle or not under a heavy load.

[AbnRanger]

 

[L'Ancien Regime]

6 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

Between 60-65C under constant load @ 4Ghz across all cores. Is that temperature only when the case door is attached/closed? Try plugging the CPU cooler fan connector to another CPU fan header. My MB has CPU fan and CPU fan Optional. It also has one for CPU pump (for AIO's). With your BIOS showing a Water Pump Speed, that makes me think you have the Dark Rock Pro TR4 fan connector plugged into the Water Pump header and not the main CPU fan header, on your MB.

Also, a thick layer of thermal paste is not good. A light, even layer on the whole CPU die is best. With decent airflow through the case, your CPU temps should be around 30C when idle or not under a heavy load.

 

 

Actually problem solved

https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by L'Ancien Regime