Normals / topology questions

[rosikowski]

Hi guys, so, something has changed, either in 3dcoat or in New unreal engine 5.2 ? suddenly my normal maps are not making the model look better (I`ve always used retopo via decimation / then bake normals) then I was texturing it, and the Normals always made my model look sharper, better. now its something like this :


at least thats what I thought it was, in blender it did look better but with simple light scenario (local point light, no ambient light) but when I turned on nice hdri I had noticed the same weird shading on the edges, of orange parts on the top of the turret (Im no 3d artist, Im a concept designer, so Im gueassing its becouse for the dirty Topology?)



So, this ugly shading only occurs when the light is really low, on top light scenario its all fine 

but then when I render the same object (retopoed mesh, with textures, it looks beautiful no matter the angle) ( sorry for the long post, actually at this point Im not sure whats my question :D, well, the question my be, How to improve on stuff like that, I should learn more about topology right ? xD or just render my concepts in 3dcoat)
EDIT:
any tips on how to quickly do RETOPO so the unreal engine will render it nicely ? maybe I can render High Poly mesh and use nanites ? but then how to texture it ?)

Edited July 1, 2023 by rosikowski

[rosikowski]

thanks guys ! , getting much lower with polycount works perfect ! basicly previously I created around 100000 midpoly version out of my highpoly sculpt, and it looked like *** , now with around 30000 it does look much better, with 8k texture, (here is a quick textures applied, now I`ll go back and texture it properly and make my simple animation finally) thx ! (  I  still need  to test that automatic export but with next project ) 




 

[rosikowski]

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by rosikowski

[Elemeno]

1 hour ago, rosikowski said:

Hi guys, so, something has changed, either in 3dcoat or in New unreal engine 5.2 ? suddenly my normal maps are not making the model look better (I`ve always used retopo via decimation / then bake normals) then I was texturing it, and the Normals always made my model look sharper, better. now its something like this :


at least thats what I thought it was, in blender it did look better but with simple light scenario (local point light, no ambient light) but when I turned on nice hdri I had noticed the same weird shading on the edges, of orange parts on the top of the turret (Im no 3d artist, Im a concept designer, so Im gueassing its becouse for the dirty Topology?)



So, this ugly shading only occurs when the light is really low, on top light scenario its all fine 

but then when I render the same object (retopoed mesh, with textures, it looks beautiful no matter the angle) ( sorry for the long post, actually at this point Im not sure whats my question :D, well, the question my be, How to improve on stuff like that, I should learn more about topology right ? xD or just render my concepts in 3dcoat)
EDIT:
any tips on how to quickly do RETOPO so the unreal engine will render it nicely ? maybe I can render High Poly mesh and use nanites ? but then how to texture it ?)

can we see your final topology, that looks like the topology of the model is responsible for that

[Oleg Shapov]

2 hours ago, rosikowski said:

any tips on how to quickly do RETOPO so the unreal engine will render it nicely ?

Could you try this optimized export functionality for UE5?

[Oleg Shapov]

3 hours ago, rosikowski said:

any tips on how to quickly do RETOPO so the unreal engine will render it nicely ?

Did you try it before baking?

[Elemeno]

remember whenever you import into unreal engine any version .. it will triangulate the mesh , so if your model already has triangles and triangles that are narrow then ue will split them and cause strange artifacts... its why topology is so important and alot of time is spent doing it

[Elemeno]

also if you like send a high poly version and we could retopo it quick and check

[rosikowski]

Thanks ! 

Elemeno
I dont know much about good topo xD but yeah seems like its a topology fault of that bad shading in low light angle, for this project I think I will leave it, and make the simple animation with what I`ve got, and present the concept with 3dcoat render engine, but here is the high poly model if You want to play with it : 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Rho4gVHTFKHWM5T9cigdtUNAcJEuDV40/view?usp=sharing

Btw, how long retopology can take for someone experience ? what do You mean "quick" xD

Oleg_Shapo
Yes, I did used tat Normal map preset, but it seems that its bad topology fault, not normals
that quickexport funcion I did play around with this one few months ago, but I had a lot of issues with this one, (usd format I mean, UE had a lot of issues with it) I will get some tutorials on it and give it a second chance now that I have more time, thanks !

[Elemeno]

1 hour ago, rosikowski said:

Thanks ! 

Elemeno

Btw, how long retopology can take for someone experience ? what do You mean "quick" xD

 

looking at that model... probably take me an hour but im slow at retopology ..

is thats the high poly you have there? ill download later and give it a shot for you

[rosikowski]

2 hours ago, Elemeno said:

looking at that model... probably take me an hour but im slow at retopology ..

is thats the high poly you have there? ill download later and give it a shot for you

Yes High poly , also in that file there are textures, but painted onto those retopo via decimation objects

[Elemeno]

26 minutes ago, rosikowski said:

Yes High poly , also in that file there are textures, but painted onto those retopo via decimation objects

im off work wednesday ill give it a quick go and send it across so you can see the method i took

[Carlosan]

I cant find any issue exporting to blender and rendering

 

 

But i found that UVislands areas are very small to bake good normals.

And there are a lot of tiny overlapped faces. (the mouse point to the area showed above)

 

For only sketch renders with areas only filled with colors and not fine details, i think that 8k resolution is too much.

Try separating the meshes on smaller groups (more mesh parts), make new UVs and bake again.

[rosikowski]

9 hours ago, Carlosan said:

I cant find any issue exporting to blender and rendering
But i found that UVislands areas are very small to bake good normals.

And there are a lot of tiny overlapped faces. (the mouse point to the area showed above)

For only sketch renders with areas only filled with colors and not fine details, i think that 8k resolution is too much.

Try separating the meshes on smaller groups (more mesh parts), make new UVs and bake again.

So basically for my purposes (sketch renders), by choosing "retopo via decimation" and making sure to go as low as I can (in decimated poly count) I can make the Baking process have better quality Normals ? (and 4k textures size)

[Carlosan]

Please try

Because every project is different, you need to do trial and error. 

There is not Magic formulas or rules.