[Solved] Looking for another 12 months of updates. How long does it usually take for the upgrade option to appear?

[cookepuss]

I know. Pilgway isn't in the business of selling maintenance. I also know that you must meet certain conditions first before you can upgrade. I've already read the threads.

1. The maintenance period of your license must expire first. CHECK. Mine just expired yesterday (7/20/2023).
2. There must be a stable build to upgrade to, newer than the last stable build you upgraded to. CHECK. I upgraded last year at this time from v2021 to v2022. The current stable build is v2023.25.

As far as I can see, I meet both criteria and would like to upgrade from my 2022 license (ending July 20, 2023) so that I can get another 12 months of support, updates.

I'm not expecting the option to be instantaneously available to me at the stroke of midnight. However, I remember that numerous people had problems last year. I want to avoid that.

I was just curious whether or not the option to upgrade is done automatically or whether we have to request it from sales first, which I didn't need to do last July, fwiw.

I've been using 3DCoat for 14 years now. I upgrade from v3 to v4, from v4 to v2021, and from v2021 to v2022. With my license perpetual, but no longer eligible for maintenance past July 20, 2023, I'd like to keep my streak going. Happy to pay. Just need the option to do so. :)

[AbnRanger]

On 7/21/2023 at 6:47 AM, cookepuss said:

I know. Pilgway isn't in the business of selling maintenance. I also know that you must meet certain conditions first before you can upgrade. I've already read the threads.

1. The maintenance period of your license must expire first. CHECK. Mine just expired yesterday (7/20/2023).
2. There must be a stable build to upgrade to, newer than the last stable build you upgraded to. CHECK. I upgraded last year at this time from v2021 to v2022. The current stable build is v2023.25.

As far as I can see, I meet both criteria and would like to upgrade from my 2022 license (ending July 20, 2023) so that I can get another 12 months of support, updates.

I'm not expecting the option to be instantaneously available to me at the stroke of midnight. However, I remember that numerous people had problems last year. I want to avoid that.

I was just curious whether or not the option to upgrade is done automatically or whether we have to request it from sales first, which I didn't need to do last July, fwiw.

I've been using 3DCoat for 14 years now. I upgrade from v3 to v4, from v4 to v2021, and from v2021 to v2022. With my license perpetual, but no longer eligible for maintenance past July 20, 2023, I'd like to keep my streak going. Happy to pay. Just need the option to do so.

I think the main thing is that Pilgway is not going to accept payment for an upgrade before the current or past one expires. They probably just feel it is the ethical thing to do. Once it has expired, you should be able to just log in to your account on pilgway.com and see the upgrade option appear. As for the 12 month subscription thing, I suspect there was some kind of misunderstanding on their part (as to what you wanted). Glad you did not let your head explode prematurely. LOL

 

[stas3dc]

18 hours ago, cookepuss said:

It's a permanent license. Of course it's still working. However, since the update period ended on the 20th of July, I'll no longer be able to use updates past v2023.25 which was released during that period of eligibility.

As you well know, because Pilgway's official stance is that they're not in the business of selling maintenance, permanent license holders need to purchase an upgrade to prolong that 12 month period. That's why the absence of the upgrade button on my account page is so frustrating. It worked fine for me last year, moving from v2021 to v2022. Just not this year.

For now, I'm still okay in the sense that I can keep working via v2023.25. A permanent license is a permanent license. I just can't go past that v2023.25 version to receive new features or bug fixes until I resolve the upgrade issue.

I would REALLY prefer to avoid spending 379€ on a fresh license to accomplish the same thing as going with an upgrade. If I had to then I would, but it's not my first choice of solutions. It's that danged gnarly upgrade button. Grrr.

I am sorry for the delay in answering. The situation is very simple - you do not have the upgrade button because we did not make any new version after the 20th of July in the Download section. We put v2023.25 on 19 July to Download section and that is the reason you can use it. But we did not make any new version in the Download section after 20th of July. Please understand the logic - in order to make the upgade for some money (45 Euros), you need to have some new version to upgrade to. Because the last version v2023.25 is already available for you for free. When we will put the next version in the Download section (it can be  v2023.26 or  v2023.27 or v2023.28...  and not just new beta on the Forum) AFTER your free upgrades date -  the 20th of July - THEN the upgrade button will appear in your account. It can take even two or three weeks after your date - the 20th of July - but only after that the Upgrade button will appear. You lose nothing - you can still use the latest version available in the Download section. And when the new version appears in the Download section after your 12 months free upgrades period expires - then the Upgrade button will appear in your account.

[stas3dc]

1 hour ago, Stefka said:

Hi to everybody, especially to @stas3dc, @Carlosan

I am really happy to see that some people are happy that they got their updates in time and for the price of 45€ (as is offered in the contract).

I am just in the situation to update my 3DCoat version which I bought in Jan. 2023 to the latest stable version 2024.13

I do have the possibility to load the update, but it´s a learning version and limited to only some days.

The company sent me an update link for 300€!!

I´m still looking for the link for the update of 45€, because I am, of course, willing to pay the 45€.

But beside this, it may be not known by Pilgway that starting from 2022, there are new legal regulations about selling software in Europe. These regulations clearly say that the vendor is responsible for providing a stable and error-free software. Because error-free software is not possible, the manufacturer is obliged to provide free updates to the users to guarantee error-free and safe software. The manufacturer is not obliged to provide free additional functionality to the users.

Here is the corresponding link. The link is from the "Europäische Verbraucher Zentrale".

https://www.evz.de/einkaufen-internet/gewaehrleistung-und-garantie/was-versteht-man-unter-digitalen-produkten-und-digitalen-dienstleistungen-evzde.html

As well the corresponding paragraph in German language.

"Was versteht man unter der Aktualisierungs- bzw. Updatepflicht?

Eine besondere Neuerung liegt in der Verpflichtung der Verkäuferin oder des Verkäufers zur Aktualisierung digitaler Produkte. Danach ist die Verkäuferin bzw. der Verkäufer verpflichtet, Aktualisierungen bereitzustellen, damit die digitalen Produkte durch regelmäßige Updates funktionsfähig bleiben und Sicherheitslücken geschlossen werden."

I do hope that my translation above is correct, concerning the content. (I am not a professional translator and this is not any legal advice, it is for information only)

So, regarding the legal basis, there should not be any charge applied for a necessary update. But as I said, if anybody could tell me how to update and get another year of free updates for 45€, please let me know.

Best regards

Walter

PS: So, right now I updated to the latest available version 2023.12. Sorry to say, it´s still very buggy, especially when importing objects with multi layers in Paint room, when working with Paint room, UV room and Modeling room in conjunction. (However, this not the topic at hand here, nor is it the time to go into this issue any deeper)

Hello, please write an email to sales@3dcoat.com and indicate which email did you use for the purchase of 3DCoat. We will solve problems with the upgrade for 45 Euro. There should not be problems.

 

Concerning free updates. In all our 3DCoat versions there can be some bugs, and we try to solve that problems. We have this disclaimer in our EULA:

5. DISCLAIMER

 

ANDREW SHPAGIN PROVIDES THE SOFTWARE AS-IS WITH ALL DEFECTS AND FAULTS. ANDREW SHPAGIN DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES TO ANY MATTER. ANDREW SHPAGIN IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE OR DETRIMENT. THIS CLAUSE OF THE EULA IS VALID ANY TIME AND IT WILL APPLY EVEN IN THE BREACH OF THE EULA.

 

I think any software has a disclaimer in the EULA. All customers should agree with the EULA if they use the software.

[Elemeno]

8 hours ago, cookepuss said:

I know. Pilgway isn't in the business of selling maintenance. I also know that you must meet certain conditions first before you can upgrade. I've already read the threads.

1. The maintenance period of your license must expire first. CHECK. Mine just expired yesterday (7/20/2023).
2. There must be a stable build to upgrade to, newer than the last stable build you upgraded to. CHECK. I upgraded last year at this time from v2021 to v2022. The current stable build is v2023.25.

As far as I can see, I meet both criteria and would like to upgrade from my 2022 license (ending July 20, 2023) so that I can get another 12 months of support, updates.

I'm not expecting the option to be instantaneously available to me at the stroke of midnight. However, I remember that numerous people had problems last year. I want to avoid that.

I was just curious whether or not the option to upgrade is done automatically or whether we have to request it from sales first, which I didn't need to do last July, fwiw.

I've been using 3DCoat for 14 years now. I upgrade from v3 to v4, from v4 to v2021, and from v2021 to v2022. With my license perpetual, but no longer eligible for maintenance past July 20, 2023, I'd like to keep my streak going. Happy to pay. Just need the option to do so.

missed the upgrade option?

[cookepuss]

You would think, right? Nah. The upgrade option isn't on my account. It wasn't a problem for me last year or with any version prior, but this year... Something about 3DCoat's upgrade system is wonky. It really does seem to be hit or miss with a lot of people. I noticed  that Werner_Z, for example, had the same exact issue just a few months ago.

I did reach out to Pilgway's sales team (sales@pilgway.com) moments ago and in advance of any official response here. Since I don't know how long sales will take to get back to me, I'd just wanted to get a jump on things now.

[Carlosan]

* Forwarded to license team

[cookepuss]

Thanks. Like I said, I contacted sales just to stay ahead of things and anticipation that you'd probably recommend that too.

[cookepuss]

Ugh! Still trying to sort this out with Sales.

I got a response, but I think that they're giving me the wrong information despite the fact that I was very clear.

My issue, again, is that I have a permanent/perpetual license and the upgrade option fails to appear on my Pilgway account. Sales, however, has directed me to pay for the 4x more expensive 1-year rental option, which makes NO sense. It solves the problem for 12 months, but then I lose the ability to use 3DCoat after that period is up. A rental is different than a perpetual license.

I've politely replied to sales and tried to point this issue out, but I'm losing faith here. This should be MUCH simpler than it is. A perpetual license is not a rental. All I'm asking for is an upgrade from 2022 to 2023. The "upgrade" option is missing from my Pilgway account.

Honestly? I can't believe that this is still an issue after all this time.

I need to take a moment, meditate, and keep my head from exploding. Maybe, it'll all get worked out after. Ooooohmmmmm lol

[cookepuss]

That's the thing. My maintenance period already expired. Days ago, actually. (July 20th). I'm due. Overdue, actually.

I know "the rules" and certainly wouldn't have attempted to upgrade before then. I definitely wouldn't have contacted Pilgway or posted here before that point either. My 12 months are already up. Gone. Done. Fini. POOF! You get the point.

Contacting them and getting a response telling me to go for the 1-year rental... Either there's a misunderstanding on their part or Pilgway is trying to push a rental/subscription model now. I'm just trying to get my perpetual license upgraded so that I can get another 12 months of updates.

Pilgway has repeatedly stated that they're not in the business of selling maintenance and that upgrading each year over the next is the only way to get the equivalent of maintenance. They even have specific pricing relating to this business model on the licensing page.

What SHOULD happen is that I'm supposed to login to my Pilgway account and a button labeled "upgrade" should appear under the "Licenses/Accounts" tab. It's missing.

I had no problem upgrading from v3 to v4. I had no problem upgrading from v4 to v2021. I had no problem upgrading from v2021 to v2022; That "upgrade" button actually did appear on my account page last year. No problem then. THIS year?!? The Pilgway licensing server seems possessed. LOL

Push comes to shove, if I'm backed into a corner, I'll pay for a brand new license if it's the only way that I can get 12 months AND a perpetual license. I would rather not pay 8x what I should though. That 1-year rental option is certainly a non-starter. Not even close. It's a rental. I'll get updates for a year, but will have to keep paying every year (at that higher rate) just to keep using 3DCoat. If I fail to re-rent, well, I lose all access to 3DCoat. That's not the case with a perpetual license, which gets version frozen at the point my 12-months expire, but still allows me to use that version indefinitely.

I've gotta be honest. I've never worked so hard in my life just trying to get people to take my money. I would just rather that they take it for the right product, the one I want/need.

Edited July 24, 2023 by cookepuss

[Skaties]

So I have already been helped twice by the very friendly webmaster. Send an email and look forward to it a little later...

[cookepuss]

In case I'm not being clear, I've attached the following screenshot (my license ID blocked for obvious reasons). I don't think that I can be any more clear than this.

[cookepuss]

3 minutes ago, Skaties said:

So I have already been helped twice by the very friendly webmaster. Send an email and look forward to it a little later...

I did that a few days ago, contacting sales as recommended. They directed me to 1-year rental, which isn't a solution for current perpetual license holders. It's just asking us to subscribe for 12 months, which is ludicrous. I contacted them again and hope to receive a more favorable response. I'd much rather not have to buy a fresh perpetual license at 379 Euro just to get those 12 months and perpetual license status. If I have to... I'd just rather not.

[Skaties]

The distributor cannot repair the broken web page, only the webmaster: web@3dcoat.com

[cookepuss]

41 minutes ago, Skaties said:

The distributor cannot repair the broken web page, only the webmaster: web@3dcoat.com

I understand what you're saying, but it's not about a broken web page per se. Lots of people upgraded at the same time last year (including me) and very few have reported the upgrade problem this year. The web page likely works fine for most everybody else. It's really a licensing problem, which is why Carlosan referred the problem to the licensing team.

To hazard a guess, I would suspect that there's a database issue instead of the code being at fault. Maybe the licensing server is not connecting or reporting these end dates properly. That would initially seem to be the responsibility of the webmaster, but probably falls under the purview of the licensing and/or sales teams since it's about license dates and the sale of an upgrade.

It's almost certainly a licensing issue, as has been mentioned by Pilgway and Carlosan numerous times over the past few years. It's just disconcerting that it hasn't been fixed completely over the years. It wasn't an issue before the new upgrade policy was instituted a few years back.

[Carlosan]

1 hour ago, cookepuss said:

That's the thing. My maintenance period already expired. Days ago, actually. (July 20th).

Actually is your license working ?

[cookepuss]

1 minute ago, Carlosan said:

Actually is your license working ?

It's a permanent license. Of course it's still working. However, since the update period ended on the 20th of July, I'll no longer be able to use updates past v2023.25 which was released during that period of eligibility.

As you well know, because Pilgway's official stance is that they're not in the business of selling maintenance, permanent license holders need to purchase an upgrade to prolong that 12 month period. That's why the absence of the upgrade button on my account page is so frustrating. It worked fine for me last year, moving from v2021 to v2022. Just not this year.

For now, I'm still okay in the sense that I can keep working via v2023.25. A permanent license is a permanent license. I just can't go past that v2023.25 version to receive new features or bug fixes until I resolve the upgrade issue.

I would REALLY prefer to avoid spending 379€ on a fresh license to accomplish the same thing as going with an upgrade. If I had to then I would, but it's not my first choice of solutions. It's that danged gnarly upgrade button. Grrr.

[lazyghoul]

4 minutes ago, cookepuss said:

I would REALLY prefer to avoid spending 379€ on a fresh license to accomplish the same thing as going with an upgrade. If I had to then I would

OMG...why would you willingly pay another 379€ when "LICENSE UPGRADE POLICY FOR 3DCOAT" states clearly and I'm quoting:

"Once that 12-month period of free updates (the first year) is over, you will have an option to purchase any future release of the appropriate program within the next 12 months (the second year) at the discounted rate of 45 Euros (in case of 3DCoat) or 40 Euros (in case of 3DCoatTextura) yet with another 12 months of free program updates starting from the date of the upgrade. That means that you will be able to buy any version released from 26.04.2022 to 25.04.2023 at the very discounted rate with another 12 months of free program updates starting from the date of such upgrade.

But if you do not buy any upgrade version during the second year after the initial purchase, you will be able to buy any future release version at the discounted price of 90 Euros (in case of 3DCoat) or 80 Euros (in case of 3DCoatTextura) at any time with another 12 months of free program updates starting from the date of the upgrade. That means that if you did not buy any upgrade for 45 (or 40) Euros until 25.04.2023 you will be able to buy the upgrade for 90 (or 80) Euros any time starting from 26.04.2023. And when you buy it you will receive another 12 months of free program updates starting from the date of the upgrade. And the same upgrade logic as described above repeats and applies."

Am I missing something?

[Carlosan]

I forwarded all request to 

sales@pilgway.com

[cookepuss]

1 minute ago, lazyghoul said:

OMG...why would you willingly pay another 379€ when "LICENSE UPGRADE POLICY FOR 3DCOAT" states clearly and I'm quoting:

You're 100% right. I would not willingly pay that cost again. I know full well what the cost for an upgrade should be, which is MUCH lower than that of a full license. Again, I've been using 3DCoat for 14 years. I know the drill. However, if Pilgway is ultimately unable or unwilling to remedy the situation then I'd have to resort to a more drastic option. And let's face it. It'd still be cheaper than the cost of Adobe CC or Maya. I've certainly paid more for less. I would just rather not pull the trigger on a pricey self-remedy. I'm in full agreement with you there.

[cookepuss]

1 minute ago, Carlosan said:

sales@pilgway.com

Yeah. Thanks. Finger crossed. Joe in Sales' response to me was  to basically just pay for a 1-Year Rental. Not an option for those who want to stay on the upgrade path AND maintain a permanent/perpetual license. I e-mailed sales again this morning. Waiting on a response.

[cookepuss]

One last thing....

I wanted to thank everybody here for being so patient and willing to hear me babble. I know that I can rant on occasion. My posting here was less about me griping like a madman and more about transparency. The more people who can address this problem openly, the more likely it is that others won't have to deal with it next year. That's the goal, to fix the upgrade problem.

And again, I fully acknowledge that the upgrade cost is substantially cheaper than that of a full license. I'm not keen on spending more than I need to either. I just know that, if all else fails and nobody is able to remedy the situation, there is that "nuclear option" on the table.

Again, thank you for all of your patience and understanding. I will update you all if and when the situation resolves itself - whenever that is.

[Hirazi Blue]

I'm in the same boat, I started mailing "support" /"sales" seven days before my current term expired (21-7). This is getting ridiculous... I am a long-time customer since version 2 but now I wonder, if this company still wants my business...

Edited July 24, 2023 by Hirazi Blue

[cookepuss]

Oh, I feel ya'. I've been with 3DCoat since 2009 and V3. I'd much rather not abandon it though. The alternatives have their own problems.

I left ZBrush after MAXON took over; I had been a C4D user for many years and lost faith in them after quality went down, but prices went up. I don't trust that they won't treat ZBrush the same way.

Similarly, I was a Photoshop user since 1992. However, the competition reached a certain point of maturity where I could get 99% of the core functionality for a fraction of t he price. That's why I moved over to Affinity. Not all of the tools that I want, but all of the tools that I need. On top of that Adobe's general treatment of their apps kinda drove me away. The mere fact that the Substance apps aren't built to deal with 4K monitors is in itself troublesome, despite the fact that more users are running at that res these days.

So, for me, 3DCoat is a nice compromise and fusion of power found in several other programs like ZBrush and Substance. Not every feature that I want, but every one that I need. Abandoning 3DCoat would me going back to MAXON and Adobe. I'd much rather not. 3DCoat is affordable, perpetual, & multi-faceted. It's the Blender of the sculpting/paining apps, imo. A nice blend of features that all work just the way I like.

Edited July 24, 2023 by cookepuss

[Carlosan]

To avoid issues, please download temporary license until dev team find a solution.

 

3DCoat_community_31_07_23.license

[cookepuss]

3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

To avoid issues, please download temporary license until dev team find a solution.

Will do. Thanks for the effort.

 

[cookepuss]

Thank you very much for the response. Certainly more helpful than Sales' head scratching suggestion to just pay for a 1-Year Rental.  I guess that I can sorta understand the practical and business logic behind the secondary condition, but it does create awkward situations such as this where users might want to prioritize a fluid continuity of license dates.

Many people would just rather get that expense out of the way the moment their time is up, as opposed to playing a secondary waiting game of sorts. Feels unnecessarily complicated in some ways. Kind of a side effect to not having (more or less) everybody on the same page upgrading to and from the same version at the same time, as was the case going from v3 to v4  or v4 to v2021.

Okay. So now it's Waiting Game #2 and the money burns a hole in my pocket til then. Yeah. Working pretty hard here to give my money to y'all. Thanks again.

Edited July 25, 2023 by cookepuss

[Carlosan]

Hi,

Thanks for your email. We are aware there are some users with permanent licenses unable to upgrade to the 2023 version of the software. We are looking into it.
Please accept my apologies for this. Hopefully we can respond in a timely manner and have this resolved.

Sincerely,
Joe
3DCoat Team
https://pilgway.com/
https://www.youtube.com/PILGWAY3DCoat
https://twitter.com/3DCoatOfficial
https://www.facebook.com/3DCoat/

[cookepuss]

(An edited version of what I posted in another thread here.)

In the spirit of honesty and transparency...

I just checked my account too. "Free Upgrades til 24.07.2024".

It would seem that my upgrade problem was "fixed" by them just adding a year to my license. That would certainly solve things. HOWEVER, I haven't even paid yet. My mama didn't raise me to lie or steal. For Andrew & Co's sake, I'm being honest here

I don't know if this was just sales/licensing's judgement call and way of fixing things. I just want to be truthful - even if it's to my detriment.

TBH, it's probably been like that for a week and I would have never noticed unless I checked my account again today, after lazyghoul's recent post

MY QUESTION...

What would Pilgway have me do now?

As there was no upgrade button and I did/could not actually pay, I wasn't responsible for adding that revised license to my account, yet there it is. This is through no fault of my own. If this is purely a mistake on Pilgway's part, I'm happy to pay that 45€ if they ask me to. At the same time, if Pilgway tells me not to pay the 45€ for some reason, whether this was an intentional "fix" or they're opting to "eat" their mistake, I don't want to end up paying more this time next year.

What would Pilgway have me do now?

I'm just trying to be honest here. I intend on using 3DCoat for many years to come. I'd rather not burn bridges.

I'm not going to use that new license until/unless Pilgway tells me that I can or asks me to cough up the cash.

For me, until I know better, I'm version frozen at v2023.25.

Edited August 6, 2023 by cookepuss

[cookepuss]

FTR, the only reason why I posted this latest twist in my licensing/upgrade drama here is because, for some unknown reason, my e-mails directly to Pilgway have been bouncing back. Not sure if it's my e-mail provider or a Pilgway issue. However, that's the only reason for posting to this thread... again.

(REALLY sorry for over-posting and being annoying. Just frustrated. Y'know? Like that the issue was remedied, intentional or by accident. Feel terrible for not being able to pay the 45€ I'm supposed to. Fretting how not paying might boomerang back on my next year. Reason why I have not & will not touch the updated license until there's some final say, resolution. I'll p*** off til then. lol)

Edited August 7, 2023 by cookepuss
Apologizing for being a pain in the backside

[Carlosan]

Please contact for this issue at 
web@pilgway.com

Thanks !