[Feature] SDF Modeling Room

[Metin Seven]

Hi,

Lately I'm in love with SDF (Signed Distance Fields) modeling, also referred to as CSG (Constructive Solid Geometry). SDF is based on 3D math functions, and offers complete modeling freedom without any concerns about topology / mesh structure. There's real-time blending, Boolean and beveling of forms and (vertex) colors, every element is non-destructive and can be adjusted at any time. Once you're done the result can be meshed.

I would love to see an SDF Modeling Room added to 3D Coat. It would be perfect to easily shape and color base objects, then convert the result to voxels and switch to the Sculpt Room to add sculpted details. SDF meshing is 3D grid-based, so I think 3D Coat's voxel engine would be very suitable for SDF integration in its pipeline.

An SDF Modeling Room would attract more beginner-level 3D modelers to 3D Coat, because the SDF modeling method is so easy to get into. It would also be something that ZBrush doesn't have.

Examples of SDF-based modeling tools are:

• MagicaCSG (my favorite SDF tool, with a very accessible UI / UX)
• Clavicula
• Clayxels (inside Unity)
• Mudbun (inside Unity)
• Womp (online)
• ConjureSDF (Blender add-on)
• Substance 3D Modeler
• SDF Blender plugin (for Godot Engine)

Technical info can be found on the site of math wizard Inigo Quilez.

More SDF info in this video + links in the description.

Here are some MagicaCSG workflow videos.

Some SDF works of Mikko Sinisalo, made and rendered with MagicaCSG (videos are best viewed on Twitter for better quality):

Every single element and color you see is non-destructive and can be altered or removed at any time.

Here you can see how he added textures in 3D Coat:

Many thanks in advance for considering this. It would surely make me and undoubtedly many other 3D Coat users very happy.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Metin Seven
Added link to an SDF explainer video.

[Elemeno]

3dcoats sculpt tools are very close to this... if anything , sdf is more complicated than 3dcoat , and what you can create with sdf is nothing to what you can make with 3dc, its essentially limitless ...
 

[Metin Seven]

49 minutes ago, Elemeno said:

3dcoats sculpt tools are very close to this... if anything , sdf is more complicated than 3dcoat , and what you can create with sdf is nothing to what you can make with 3dc, its essentially limitless ...
 

SDF modeling would be very useful as complementary tool inside 3D Coat. Non-destructive, realtime blending, Boolean, beveling and coloring of shapes is very powerful for quick 3D shaping. Then you can add more advanced elements and details in 3D Coat's Sculpt Room.

In case a separate SDF Modeling Room is too much work, I'd love to see a real-time adjustable blend factor between Primitives in the Sculpt Room.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Metin Seven

[Elemeno]

3 hours ago, Metin Seven said:

SDF modeling would be very useful as complementary tool inside 3D Coat. Non-destructive, realtime blending, Boolean, beveling and coloring of shapes is very powerful for quick 3D shaping. Then you can add more advanced elements and details in 3D Coat's Sculpt Room.

In case a separate SDF Modeling Room is too much work, I'd love to see a real-time adjustable blend factor between Primitives in the Sculpt Room.

if you wanted sdf modelling then they would have to have a complete separate room, you couldnt have it within poly modelling unless it was a stan alone tool that once you have created your shape then apply it ,but again , once applied it woul be exactly like just vox hide tool ... no destructive and easy to use

[Metin Seven]

Yes, but it is the real-time shaping that makes SDF so powerful. The real-time blending while you transform an element makes it easy to experiment without trial and error, undo and redo. Have you worked with an SDF editor? Then you know the added value compared to traditional sculpting.

[MJonathan]

Wooo!! I love it!! I tried it SDF modeling, and it's a new great experience!! Furthermore, I'm a big fan of Inigo Quilez!! I've learned a lot of him!

[rubeos]

It would be a nice addition of course. I don't want to oppose this proposal. Also because things can be hybridized at some point for ultimate benefits that make everyone happy. You were right to propose it; one must have the courage to make the proposals that one thinks are appropriate.

However, priorities are to be kept in mind in the programming work, which is slow and laborious (I imagine): if efforts are put into the implementation of the SDF they will not be put into something else.
The bottom line is that in my opinion SDFs are not as revolutionary a feature as they appear...although, of course, they have advantages and peculiarities, such as being able to see shapes being created live.
For now they rely mostly on Boolean operations.

What is needed in 3Dcoat, IMHO? What can it distinguish itself from others with? What can't you easily do with 3Dcoat, Zbrush, and other software born for artistic purposes?
Objects composed of curved surfaces! There is nothing that replaces the SubD technique...with its very hard learning curve, the incredible daily slowness in working (it takes 30 minutes to get a topologically perfect bolt! Whereas with voxels, for example, you can do it in 5 minutes).

3DCoat is perhaps the program that comes closest to introducing a new modeling paradigm in the future. Because, now, would only need to modify, expand, improve, and organize much better existing tools.
Just think, a program powerful and world-famous as Zbrush, still does not have the ability to let you easily model cars. The car is just one example, there are hundreds of shapes out there that have similar surfaces.
So again, my two cents is for the thing that I think is most important for the development and completeness of the software. I want to keep repeating this message, nothing special.
Recently artist Anton Tenitsky posted a video of modeling a van. He is very good at it. Yet even though he is amazing with 3DCoat, he always chooses models that pretty easy to deal with (the van is obtained by roughing out a voxel shape by sculpt tools, and then cutting out and add various parts, etc.). It is clear that something fundamental is missing to get all existing types of shapes, with reasonable accuracy and pretty ease.

 

[Metin Seven]

46 minutes ago, rubeos said:

in my opinion SDFs are not as revolutionary a feature as they appear.

Have a look at the SDF works Mikko Sinisalo made and rendered with MagicaCSG (videos are best viewed on Twitter for better quality):

Every single element you see is non-destructive and can be altered or removed at any time.

Here you can see how he added textures in 3D Coat:

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Metin Seven

[rubeos]

Beautiful models. It is really something ''magical'' to be able at any stage of modeling to move elements, change dimensions etc, all non-destructive. SDF must be very nice to use, and certainly can attract new (and old) users I just wish it was possible...well, I've already said that

Edited May 7, 2023 by rubeos

[Elemeno]

to be fair , a few primitive shapes and i made this in seconds...

[Metin Seven]

2 hours ago, rubeos said:

Beautiful models. It is really something ''magical'' to be able at any stage of modeling to move elements, change dimensions etc, all non-destructive. SDF must be very nice to use, and certainly can attract new (and old) users I just wish it was possible...well, I've already said that

Thanks for your support. I've been working with MagicaCSG since its first release, supporting the developer via Patreon, and by doing so you've got access to the latest beta versions. I really love the ease of use and the many 'happy accidents' you encounter because you tend to experiment much more in such a real-time, non-destructive environment.

I predict that SDF modeling is going to get more popular the next few years, and would advise the 3D Coat developers to at least consider implementing it as a new Room. Adobe has already jumped on the SDF ship with their Substance 3D Modeler, and a friend of mine, who has always been a die-hard ZBrush modeler, is only working with Substance 3D Modeler in VR these days.

Those who haven't experienced SDF modeling yet, I suggest to at least try it for a while, before disapproving of my suggestion and defending 3D Coat, because there's no need to defend 3D Coat. SDF would just be a welcome addition to make our beloved 3D Coat even more powerful, and keep up with the developments in the 3D world. My two cents.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Metin Seven

[Elemeno]

1 hour ago, Metin Seven said:

Thanks for your support. I've been working with MagicaCSG since its first release, supporting the developer via Patreon, and by doing so you've got access to the latest beta versions. I really love the ease of use and the many 'happy accidents' you encounter because you tend to experiment much more in such a real-time, non-destructive environment.

I predict that SDF modeling is going to get more popular the next few years, and would advise the 3D Coat developers to at least consider implementing it as a new Room. Adobe has already jumped on the SDF ship with their Substance 3D Modeler, and a friend of mine, who has always been a die-hard ZBrush modeler, is only working with Substance 3D Modeler in VR these days.

Those who haven't experienced SDF modeling yet, I suggest to at least try it for a while, before disapproving of my suggestion and defending 3D Coat, because there's no need to defend 3D Coat. SDF would just be a welcome addition to make our beloved 3D Coat even more powerful, and keep up with the developments in the 3D world. My two cents.

right i hardly believe anyone using zbrush stops and uses 3d modeler as their go to software ...

sdf modelling is great dont get me wrong , but its a special way of calculating geometry , it would take the guys years to implement anything like this ,

but what they could do which is mostly available already is mimic sdf modelling using the voxel sculpting tools .

 

 

but honestly ... what you can o in sdf modelling you can do just as easily in 3dcoat

 

 

 

[rubeos]

5 ore fa, Metin Seven ha scritto:

Grazie per il vostro sostegno. Lavoro con MagicaCSG sin dalla sua prima versione, supportando lo sviluppatore tramite Patreon, e così facendo hai accesso alle ultime versioni beta. Adoro la facilità d'uso e i molti "incidenti felici" che incontri perché tendi a sperimentare molto di più in un ambiente così in tempo reale e non distruttivo.

Prevedo che la modellazione SDF diventerà più popolare nei prossimi anni e consiglierei agli sviluppatori di 3D Coat di considerare almeno di implementarla come una nuova stanza. Adobe è già salita sulla nave SDF con il suo Substance 3D Modeler e un mio amico, che è sempre stato un irriducibile modellatore ZBrush, sta lavorando solo con Substance 3D Modeler in VR in questi giorni.

Chi non ha ancora sperimentato la modellazione SDF, suggerisco di provarlo almeno per un po', prima di disapprovare il mio suggerimento e difendere 3D Coat, perché non c'è bisogno di difendere 3D Coat. SDF sarebbe solo una gradita aggiunta per rendere il nostro amato 3D Coat ancora più potente e stare al passo con gli sviluppi nel mondo 3D. I miei due centesimi.

We can already see very nice things made with Substance modeler...by the way it has such a clear and intuitive interface and tools that a total neophyte could use them.In any case it will be mostly the developers who will decide, but in the future many more users requests may come..we will see the developments.
It doesn't have much to do with the topic...but Sculptris comes to mind. Later sold to Pixologic...(later sold to Maxon)
That program was a miracle, among other things it had a clean interface, with few tools, but well 'flowing' with each other. Of course, it was also full of bugs and supported only a few thousand polygons before crashing. Even though it is now an integral part of zbrush and has improved...it's just not the same.

[def9]

Zbrush has a similar feature, it is called project primitive. SDF modelling is great. It is non destructive and can be used to create base form. 3D Coat is missing live boolean functionality and this can provide that along with blend factor.

[Metin Seven]

13 hours ago, Elemeno said:

right i hardly believe anyone using zbrush stops and uses 3d modeler as their go to software ...

He hasn't stopped using ZBrush, but spends most of his time sculpting in VR using Substance 3D Modeler. Have a look at what he makes with Substance 3D Modeler in VR:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/39EBkB

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yD44y9

 

13 hours ago, Elemeno said:

sdf modelling is great dont get me wrong , but its a special way of calculating geometry , it would take the guys years to implement anything like this ,

I'm no coder, but from what I've understood, the math exists of not very complex formulas. Maybe it's the interactions between the shapes that's the hard part, but I don't think it would take years to develop by 3D Coat's highly skilled 3D graphics specialists. I expect it to be an exciting challenge for them.

There's a Junior Technical Artist who is developing an SDF add-on via Blender's Python API:

https://80.lv/articles/an-upcoming-plug-in-that-adds-tools-for-sdf-modeling-to-blender/

 

Anyway, I would very much welcome SDF or an SDF-like workflow in 3DC.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Metin Seven

[rubeos]

If you look at the demos on his twitter you can't not think that this is something very powerful. It will come as an addon for Blender, if i understand.

Edited May 9, 2023 by rubeos

[Metin Seven]

Added SDF Blender plugin (for Godot Engine) to the initial post.

[Elemeno]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:14 PM, Metin Seven said:

Added SDF Blender plugin (for Godot Engine) to the initial post.

right! forget what i said ... after using plasticity ... that is the future of modelling....!!

maybe even if these plasticity feature were in sculpt room like the loft tools etc .. and sdf modelling tools too and just have the modelling room for poly modelling

[rubeos]

Plasticity evolves at an insane speed..

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by rubeos

[animk]

The main difference between sdf and 3d coat's voxel is non-destructive workflow, if 3d coat has non-destructive boolean it will be amazing.

 

[Carlosan]

Send any feature requests at
support@pilgway.com

Thanks