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zbrush 4.4

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http://www.zbrushcen...4-Are-YOU-ready

I see a lot of features copied from 3dc. How about 3dc copy some features, too. I'm sure there are a lot of ideas there 3dc can copy.

This is precisely what I was thinking. Almost like they saw the Kitbashing videos and said "Hey we can do that too by tweaking the Sub tools."

Nevertheless, some of the UI changes have implemented ideas/concepts from theirs because some of those helping Andrew with the UI, are ZB users too. I'm just surprised how much Pixologic copies...most of R4 is some replication of features already in 3DC

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Really nice features for zbrush. Well presented, as always...

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This is precisely what I was thinking. Almost like they saw the Kitbashing videos and said "Hey we can do that too by tweaking the Sub tools." Nevertheless, some of the UI changes have implemented ideas/concepts from theirs because some of those helping Andrew with the UI, are ZB users too. I'm just surprised how much Pixologic copies...most of R4 is some replication of features already in 3DC

Most well-established applikation have that policy. First build a big community, and than try to hold that community happy with functions/ ideas, which they can buy or copy from innovative start-ups.

The innovation-spirit in their first steps is forced out by the competition with other companies. And in this case it is good to have all functions (of other apps),too, when you struggling to be the best in market.

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I'm sure there are a lot of ideas there 3dc can copy.

Like?

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FiberMesh, ShadowBox e.g.

Personally, I'd prefer that Andrew didn't waste precious development time with another Hair/Fur utility. I'd rather the focus be on boosting raw Sculpting and Painting performance and restructuring the app (in V4 cycle) to be more of a unified environment (No Rooms), and with an Outliner panel, to keep track of all scene assets easily.

As for Shadowbox, that was actually a copy of 3D Coat's Sketch tool. Pixologic just took it a few steps further. Andrew then enhanced the Sketch tool to offer some of those additions.

Like?

Like have some type of Layer Morph system, which allows you to store mesh states that can increase or decrease the shape with a slider, and even use masks on that morph. A good example would be using different type of pore brushes on the face, and going back later to dial the effect down or brush areas the you want to mask parts of it out.

We can do that to some degree in the Paint Room, with the different layers, but it's neither as simple or as elegant as it is in MB or ZB...plus there are no layer masks.

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Personally, I'd prefer that Andrew didn't waste precious development time with another Hair/Fur utility. I'd rather the focus be on boosting raw Sculpting and Painting performance and restructuring the app (in V4 cycle) to be more of a unified environment (No Rooms), and with an Outliner panel, to keep track of all scene assets easily.

As for Shadowbox, that was actually a copy of 3D Coat's Sketch tool. Pixologic just took it a few steps further. Andrew then enhanced the Sketch tool to offer some of those additions.

Yes, youre right.

With an one man show development it is probably impossible to implement all those full-package-functions (edit: although im curios about the features Raul will take with from Cuba ) .

But no rooms? Imho it is much clearer for understandig the workflow.

How would that unifiied Enviroment look like? Are there some concepts for that?

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Personally, I'd prefer that Andrew didn't waste precious development time with another Hair/Fur utility. I'd rather the focus be on boosting raw Sculpting and Painting performance and restructuring the app (in V4 cycle) to be more of a unified environment (No Rooms), and with an Outliner panel, to keep track of all scene assets easily.

100% agree ! :)

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I'm testing this new zb build, all day now.

It looks like it copied 3dcoat... this isn't true IMO.

Qremesher / retopo is an interesting engine that provides much better meshes than 3dcoat/autopo

Very clean loops almost ready for rigging.

Yes, IMO, far better than 3dcoat. I already found the tricks LOL, loop guides are forcing topology. We never saw it happening in 3dc.

There're also some new implementations like a much better editor for manual retopo. And a more powerful boolean-dynamesh engine.

I think, it's the best ever zb build. Too early to talk about bugs, I already found a few minor ones. LOL

These are good days. Both 3dcoat and zb at their best.

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some great new features! Mostly I'd like to see the spline tools. Looks like theres a lot of power is having splines that can morph shapes, and tubes into place.

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These are good days. Both 3dcoat and zb at their best.

Well said Michalis, if you can afford both why not use both each with it's own strengths...

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some great new features! Mostly I'd like to see the spline tools. Looks like theres a lot of power is having splines that can morph shapes, and tubes into place.

However... we have such a powerful tool in 3dc, some years now. It's more powerful actually. You know, you can edit these meshes-for-splines in an external editor, make a fully decimated version - good topology, (here I use the chain thing as example), then use this, export the mesh as splines, replace it with the Hi Density spline mesh. Import the low dense mesh in retopo and have a nice topology automatically.

Do the same in zbrush ... if you dare LOL

I actually found a way to do this. LOL again.

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restructuring the app (in V4 cycle) to be more of a unified environment (No Rooms), and with an Outliner panel, to keep track of all scene assets easily.

I'm totally agree , this is the actuall weak point of 3D Coat , this is why it doesn't look like as professionnal as it deserves.

I would add , the support to a true multi UV like Mari does, not only the support of UV sets.

Where i'm disagree is about the support of Hair i would prefere to have it in 3D Coat, here at our studio we can use ZBrush to make some grooming,

then proceduraly scatter it on a surface and it works.

I'm allready fine with the modeling tools in 3D Coat,i don't need more.

I worked with zbrush so many times in production (i own a license as well) and personnaly i find 3D Coat more logical.

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Hmmm I in fact find the rooms a good thing. I personally dislike very much the way zbrush has every single thing clumped up in a single space. So many menus make me dizzy. What should be improved in my opinion is the way a retopology mesh adapts to a voxel/surface mesh. Andrew already made some improvements with the pose/move tool so it adapts, but we need further adaptation to brushing so we can use a mesh that already has uvs and good topology as base. This communication between the retopology room and voxel room would be perfect (perhaps to even have the retopology mesh as a "ghost" in the voxel room).

Thinking it more deeply... I would leave the paint, retopo and voxel rooms untouched (with more connectivity only), but maybe the sculpt and uv room (which are the least used I believe), could be definitly discarded and merged into a more robust and organized retopo room.

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FiberMesh, ShadowBox e.g.

We had "Shadowbox" before they did. See the Sketch tool. True, we don't have the fiber solution right now. Andrew talked about creating hair in 3DC before Pixo ever mentioned it but decided not to do it.

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Andrew talked about creating hair in 3DC before Pixo ever mentioned it but decided not to do it.

Never ??

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Never is a promise that is broken many, many times.... :D

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Never ??

Never what? I don't think Andrew specifically said he wasn't going to make hair if that's what you mean, it just didn't happen. I think some other features took higher priority and came instead.

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I do have to say that this latest release (R4) may have enough Retopo capability (they copied the Strokes tool, essentially) to remove 3D Coat from many ZB artist's workflow altogether. I am perplexed as to the amount of accolades all these new features in ZB4 get compared to the lack thereof when released in 3D Coat. The Kitbashing toolset gets no love...even in this community, but as soon as it gets copied into ZBrush's bag of toys...it's suddenly this totally amazing innovation!

Seems to me that the one thing Andrew could do to make up ground and close the gap, is to shift from the current pursuit of new features (that Pixologic will just copy and be lauded for all "their" innovations) and instead make it his mission to take ZBrush's performance crown. THAT would kick the door in, and get everyone's attention.

I'll say again...Andrew has an ace up his sleeve...CUDA. Update it to v5, which is multi-platform (Mac and Linux too), and broaden it's usage throughout the application, to all brushing and transform operations. Let NVidia's development behemoth do all the heavy lifting for Andrew. The new Kepler cards are BEASTS!

The GTX 680 has 3x as many CUDA cores (1500+) as the previous generation of cards, and with relatively affordable 4GB (VRAM) versions. Andrew simply needs to tap into all that performance, just waiting to be leveraged in his favor.

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I do have to say that this latest release (R4) may have enough Retopo capability (they copied the Strokes tool, essentially) to remove 3D Coat from many ZB artist's workflow altogether. I am perplexed as to the amount of accolades all these new features in ZB4 get compared to the lack thereof when released in 3D Coat. The Kitbashing toolset gets no love...even in this community, but as soon as it gets copied into ZBrush's bag of toys...it's suddenly this totally amazing innovation!

Zbrush has a powerful marketing division. All the new features of 3DC get lost in the short Release-notes., there is no attention grabber in the presentation.

Maybe they plan it for the V4 release, but in this state its no comparision to zBrushs marketing.

However it is a basic rule of economics, that you can have the best products available, but without marketing nobody wil notice or buy your products

btw: whats about this michael irvin vid?

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I do have to say that this latest release (R4) may have enough Retopo capability (they copied the Strokes tool, essentially)

Don't say this before trying.

These are not the loop guides we are familiar with.

These loops are forcing geometry as much you like! These produce perfect loops, no spiral results, no tris neither ngons.

This tool works perfectly on very complicated meshes, a hand-fingers already posed, touching the body... yes, this Qremesher managed to do it right. No overlapping faces. Not the expected messing. I'm deeply impressed.

You know what I'm thinking? Pixologic is the master of tool making. It was and still is the reference for all other 3d sculpting apps.

They may adopted some ideas from 3dcoat but the implementation is far better and it obviously uses different and very complicated algorithms.

@BeatKitano

+1

Let's stop this and concentrate on making 3dcoat better. We don't need more tools, we need to see refinement of these tools. Latest build became my favorite. Retopology room needs more love now.

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btw: whats about this michael irvin vid?

Just a funny clip of someone using the word "Beast," which I used to describe the new generation (Kepler) of NVidia cards.

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Just a funny clip of someone using the word "Beast," which I used to describe the new generation (Kepler) of NVidia cards.

ah ok , dont have sound here at work ...lol

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BTW, I guess a lot of the accolades also has to do with ZBrush updates being free. So, it's largely just the same users gushing about the new goodies they get. Very similar to how it is around here when there are substantial updates. I would be pretty happy too if I were in their shoes.

...You know what I'm thinking? Pixologic is the master of tool making. It was and still is the reference for all other 3d sculpting apps.

They may adopted some ideas from 3dcoat but the implementation is far better and it obviously uses different and very complicated algorithms.

This is the major dilemma for Andrew. On one hand he is hounded with an relentless barrage of feature requests and then he has us long time users asking for fewer features and more refinement. Once the app has grown enough that Andrew can hire more full-time staff, then there will likely be continued progress on both fronts.

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