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Andrew Shpagin

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

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We are talking about painting...you can't do real texture work in Zbrush,there is no blending modes and polypaint layers are very rudimentary at this point.

I do lots of Polypainting in ZBrush and I use the Layers to create multiple layers of polypaint which I can easily blend together at any transparency amount for each level, then when I am satisfied, I bake them all down, the only thing I can't do is use different blending types like multiply, subtract etc, but I never really need those anyway.

T.

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And vertex painting is fantastic for 3DConcept art which a lot of studios are doing more and more nowadays in Zbrush...I think if those people would be aware of how powerful 3DC vertex painting is they would do it in 3DC instead of Zbrush.

The conceptual advantage of Zbrush, over 3DCoat is its non linear workflow, that also get's visible when painting.

When one starts using colour or textures in Zbrush one does not require UV's nor good topology. Yeah that's typical for Vertex Painting,

but in contrast to 3DC one here can do this on the roughest concept sculpt as well as on a super detailed final model. All Vertex Paint

information can be losslessy converted to textures, not only for diffuse colour.

3DCoat does not allow you to add final sculpt detail in its Voxel room, that's supposed to happen in the Paint Room.

In contrast to Zbrush the Geometry detailing and colouring process is separated in three stages (Voxel, Surface, Displacement Painting),

which even happen in three separate workspaces.

3DCoat requires you to decide that your Voxel model has reached a state which justifies switching to the Surface Tools, after some work

here one rather should no more go back. Once in Surface workspace one again has to decide when your model is refined enough to go through

the retopology and UV process. Only afterwards one may paint with more than the colour channel and add very small detail to the model - but that's no more Vertex Painting.

Once one has converted to an optimized low res version in 3DC one can no longer easily change the underlying model proportions dramatically,

add new Detail to that model or remove stuff. One after such changes certainly can not maintain existing multichannel Paint information (at least not without

going through baking operations). As interesting as the program is: 3DCoat really works in a very linear fashion.

All this is hooked up very differently in Zbrush, the user does not need to follow such rules. That to me marks its advantage in Concept Development processes.

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The conceptual advantage of Zbrush, over 3DCoat is its non linear workflow, that also get's visible when painting.

When one starts using colour or textures in Zbrush one does not require UV's nor good topology. Yeah that's typical for Vertex Painting,

but in contrast to 3DC one here can do this on the roughest concept sculpt as well as on a super detailed final model. All Vertex Paint

information can be losslessy converted to textures, not only for diffuse colour.

3DCoat does not allow you to add final sculpt detail in its Voxel room, that's supposed to happen in the Paint Room.

In contrast to Zbrush the Geometry detailing and colouring process is separated in three stages (Voxel, Surface, Displacement Painting),

which even happen in three separate workspaces.

3DCoat requires you to decide that your Voxel model has reached a state which justifies switching to the Surface Tools, after some work

here one rather should no more go back. Once in Surface workspace one again has to decide when your model is refined enough to go through

the retopology and UV process. Only afterwards one may paint with more than the colour channel and add very small detail to the model - but that's no more Vertex Painting.

Once one has converted to an optimized low res version in 3DC one can no longer easily change the underlying model proportions dramatically,

add new Detail to that model or remove stuff. One after such changes certainly can not maintain existing multichannel Paint information (at least not without

going through baking operations). As interesting as the program is: 3DCoat really works in a very linear fashion.

All this is hooked up very differently in Zbrush, the user does not need to follow such rules. That to me marks its advantage in Concept Development processes.

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You are not forced to go that way...I never used voxel sculpting on any of my models.I use only Liveclay .

I do not agree at all with you and I find zbrush much more linear actually ....in 3Dcoat you can pose,move multiple objects at the same time while in zbrush you need to step down to a lower level to do that using the very poor plugin Transpose master,in 3Dcoat all those tweaking can be done straight on the original mesh.

3DCoat is also is much more flexible regarding vertex painting.

In 3Dcoat vertex paint you can paint colored specular.....in zbrush there is only diffuse.

There is also absolutely no 3D texturing tools... lightbox and projection master...are just projecting tools.There is no 3D clone brush...only zproject brush and pmaster clone brush which are both 2d.

Interaction between vertex paint and photoshop is extremely rough compared to 3DCoat.

In 3Dcoat you can add local resolution using Liveclay to get more vertex painting resolution at specific places....

You can losslessly transfer you color to Uvs as well in 3DCoat.....

and I dont undertsand when you say;

"Once one has converted to an optimized low res version in 3DC one can no longer easily change the underlying model proportions dramatically,

add new Detail to that model or remove stuff. One after such changes certainly can not maintain existing multichannel Paint information (at least not without

going through baking operations)."

Its absolutely untrue you can tweak the lowres version as you wish and no paint information is loss.

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Hi Artman,

I do not agree at all with you and I find zbrush much more linear actually ....

Yeah, there's probably always different ways to look at things. I'm afraid we have to agree to differ :)
In my answer I only concentrate on one of the aspects.

and I dont undertsand when you say;
"Once one has converted to an optimized low res version in 3DC one can no longer easily change the underlying model proportions dramatically,
add new Detail to that model or remove stuff. One after such changes certainly can not maintain existing multichannel Paint information (at least not without
going through baking operations)."
Its absolutely untrue you can tweak the lowres version as you wish and no paint information is loss.
I was talking about radically changing the HiRes object and still maintaining existing Detailing.
I don't work in figurative Design but say I was in charge to develop some Character.
After some hours of work I could have a first study. It could show considerable Detail in the face, I could have used procedurals
on certain areas, maybe the clothing, the figure could use Ambient Occlusion for all sorts of effects, it could even already have
convincing looking hair. Using multi layer shaders I had fine grained control over specularity, sss and other render effects, usable
with the internal renderer. Still at this point I did not have have to think about topology or UV's or textures.
When my figure now looks what I imagined to be Axerix but the Director has a look over my sholder and says "I love these proportions
and this facial expression but you know what? This face should not be Asterix but rather Bonemine, the wife of the Major."
Then without further ado I could convert the guy to a woman and present the second concept model soon after.
One could refine the pore structure in the face, inflate the lips and make them glossier and reshape the entire body.One could recomb
hair to make it look more female, edit the procedurals used on clothing etc. All this could happen in the same workspace, on the same
underlying topology, every aspect of the model which wasn't changed stays intact.
Edited by polyxo

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The way I have been working in 3DCoat is to create a high detailed model, retopo it, create UV's for it, merge to scene then paint it, then export the retopo mesh with the displacement and Colour maps, where as in ZBrush I work the other way around, I start with a low rez UVed model created in Softimage, import it into ZBrush where I step up the subdivision levels, refine the details and sculpt until I'm satisfied, then paint, when finished, I use Multimapper to generate the displacement, colour and cavity maps and sub displacement level obj I need which also exports the lot and at any time I can easily go back to any of the displacement levels of the poly mesh and make any changes needed in a few mins, then export again at any time, this is not so easy with 3DCoat.

T.

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3D-Coat is much more useful in texture painting since I can projection-paint the low-poly model directly with Mudbox-like controls. Mudbox unfortunately leaves black smears where I delete paint from a layer, while at same time 3D-Coat allows perfect paint-delete operations. Also 3D-Coat is able to export only the painted pixels, while Mudbox is only able to export the whole flattened layer. Plus the distortion painting in 3DC is very much like Liquidify in Photoshop. Zbrush, Mudbox and 3DC all have issues, but 3DC has the least problems from the three so 3DC is most usable.

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3DCoat really needs a drag rectangle brush with orientation, so you can easily project an alpha on the surface, rotate it, scale it, then let it go to create either displacements or painted details or both at once, the alpha mask currently in 3DCoat is very clumsy and difficult to get consistent results.

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3DCoat really needs a drag rectangle brush with orientation, so you can easily project an alpha on the surface, rotate it, scale it, then let it go to create either displacements or painted details or both at once, the alpha mask currently in 3DCoat is very clumsy and difficult to get consistent results.

Try the stamp draw mode (you can pick the center point, drag+ scale and rotate all at the same time), or the Moveable Stamp mode (right next to the stamp). You can move it all around and object and see a live preview of the result as you move it. You can do more than that, though. Even use the bracket keys to scale it and the 9 or 0 keys to rotate it on the fly at the same time. Hard to imagine it getting more versatile than that.

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Try the stamp draw mode (you can pick the center point, drag+ scale and rotate all at the same time), or the Moveable Stamp mode (right next to the stamp). You can move it all around and object and see a live preview of the result as you move it. You can do more than that, though. Even use the bracket keys to scale it and the 9 or 0 keys to rotate it on the fly at the same time. Hard to imagine it getting more versatile than that.

Thanks for pointing that out Abn, I wasn't aware of this.

T.

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Has anyone used the option to calculate occlusion using one light source in the latest beta?

How is it working for you?

I kind of expected it to bake a shadow based on the direction of the light like a light mapper.

What is its intended use and how do you control the output?

Thanks peeps.

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Lets not forget "Tattoo 3D Paint" It was my first 3D paint program. It is outdated but still everyonce in awhile I will open it up and remember how happy I was to be able to paint in 3D as I hated 2D uv island painting...

Now free as he stopped development a number of years ago.

http://www.terabit-software.co.uk/Tattoo.aspx

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Seriously now.

What about 32bit exr or even 16 bit tif support on masks panel? Why jpg 8bit only?

Poor quality this way. Except I missed something. It's a request. I hope you don't mind talking a little on this subject.

Now in v4, we have a nice tool for baking quality 32 bit exrs (excellent control) of panels-reliefs.

Pity we can't use it as mask.

8 bit tga... very poor quality. See how better the 3dcoat baked exr works as displacement in blender.

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12787&p=92071

post-2454-0-52076800-1369251713_thumb.jp

  • Like 1

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I used the tweak room to change a lowpoly model slightly mid-paint. I had to turn off Low Poly view mode because it couldn't be tweaked with that mode on, then after I was done I re-entered the paint room, turned it back on, and it turns out it kept the old shape in memory. Even saving and loading it again I get two different shapes when turning on/off lowpoly view mode.

Is this a bug? I thought low-poly just changed the way the texture was applied or how the tris are turned. If it's actually a morph that's stored on import then can I use it in some more meaningful way like painting in/out tweaked areas?

Edit: Seems that turning on lowpoly afterwords only changes what the mesh looks like back to how it was, but the paint is still projected onto the tweaked mesh.

Edited by PolyHertz

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Andrew, can you say one way or another if your comment earlier about expanding actually means bringing on more programers to work on 3DCoat? Speculated on that a few pages back but would like to know if that's actualy the case or not.

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Anybody else been able to get anything from the Copy/Paste tool (Paint Room)? Did it not have options to copy red to blue and vice versa? It doesn't do squat on my end, as you can see in the video. Same goes for the Scrape tool in the Voxel Room. Can't adjust the intensity...it's broken. Turn the depth all the way to 0 and it still scrapes like it's stuck on 100%.

http://www.screencast.com/t/j63VtHgYGRx

Edited by AbnRanger

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Lets not forget "Tattoo 3D Paint" It was my first 3D paint program. It is outdated but still everyonce in awhile I will open it up and remember how happy I was to be able to paint in 3D as I hated 2D uv island painting...

Tattoo 3D! I remember being so excited when I discovered that app for the first time a few years ago! :D

Anyone else have any experience with single light occlusion? Can you move the light source and can it bake shadows?

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Anybody else been able to get anything from the Copy/Paste tool (Paint Room)? Did it not have options to copy red to blue and vice versa? It doesn't do squat on my end, as you can see in the video. Same goes for the Scrape tool in the Voxel Room. Can't adjust the intensity...it's broken. Turn the depth all the way to 0 and it still scrapes like it's stuck on 100%.

http://www.screencast.com/t/j63VtHgYGRx

Hi! Copy/ Paste tool works here. Ctrl + C copys parts of the surface and ctrl + v paste it. Red to blue and vice versa belongs to Topological symmetry tool.

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So, no support of 16 or 32 bit displacement maps on masks panel.

Thank you for confirming it.

Too bad news actually.

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You can copy/paste with the regular brush tool, what's the dedicated tool good for?

Trying to paint on a mesh with a 4k texture this morning to see if it's as bad as some people have said. Some things work fine, but almost every layer-based operation has noticeable lag, especially sliding opacity values which almost hangs the program sometimes (entering them in directly just to be safe).

Edited by PolyHertz

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So, no support of 16 or 32 bit displacement maps on masks panel.

Thank you for confirming it.

Too bad news actually.

yes that sucks big time... 8bits jpeg is a joke..

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yes that sucks big time... 8bits jpeg is a joke..

There is support for 16 bit png files as mask.

We still need support for 32 bit tiff or exr images

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Hi! Copy/ Paste tool works here. Ctrl + C copys parts of the surface and ctrl + v paste it. Red to blue and vice versa belongs to Topological symmetry tool.

How can you tell what you are selecting to copy in the first place? No highlighting of the mesh or anything?

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any 1 have troubles with realtime render in render room ?

or display refresh time ?

or light changes ?

im using v16 and render room is a mess

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