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How hard is it to learn Lightwave, compared to Blender, Houdini, Maya, or 3DS Max?

Edited by Denis

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How hard is it to learn Lightwave, compared to Blender, Houdini, Maya, or 3DS Max?

 

 

not as hard as Houdini, about the same as Maya and Max. Houdini is a much different program than any of these other ones...

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How hard is it to learn Lightwave, compared to Blender, Houdini, Maya, or 3DS Max?

I don't know that it's a matter of learning, but rather the future....or lack thereof. LW, as it stands, is mired  in a years-long effort to unify the two apps and it's proving to be Mission Impossible. Was a bad concept from the beginning and was way outdated a decade ago. The only hope it had was CORE, and they killed that effort about 3yrs ago. I was planning on getting back on board a few years down the road, after CORE was more full-featured and mature. LW is a powerful app in many respects, but it's also incredibly outdated in many respects, too. The real problem is....it's closest competitors. Blender and Modo, have their act together, while LW is still struggling to get there.

 

Modo is really the next generation of Lightwave....just under a different name. The original developers of LW had to leave the company and start their own, to make that vision work. A decade later, they've done a marvelous job of executing that vision. Would be much smarter to put your chips on Modo rather than LW, IMHO. Having said that, Blender is downright amazing....not just for the hobbiest. but for a freelancer and small studio. I've really changed my thinking about the app, as they have moved to a subscription-type model (with the Project Gooseberry) to help sustain development

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@AbnRanger: Is the Project Gooseberry subscription money really paying developers? I thought that money was just being used to pay artists that are working on the animated short movie.

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@AbnRanger: Is the Project Gooseberry subscription money really paying developers? I thought that money was just being used to pay artists that are working on the animated short movie.

It's both, actually. Much of their development occurs during these large-scale projects.

https://cloud.blender.org/

 

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Org:Institute/BlenderCloud

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Thanks, this is good to know, but modo is way too expensive for a hobbiest.

Edited by Denis

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Thanks, this is good to know, but modo is way too expensive for a hobbiest.

They usually have sales at various times through the year, where it comes to about $800-900. Then, you can find people selling their license on the Modo classified section of their forums, for roughly $700+....once in a while

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At that price despite Abn Ranger's essentially correct assessment, LW is a decent deal. WAsn't LW the pioneer in SubD modeling? In fact we have THE pioneer of LW SubD modeling right here on this board with us..none other than Taron himself

 

001ccd58_medium.jpeg

 

 

Light Wave's development may not be quite at Modo or Maya's cutting edge but for that price I think it could be a good choice

 

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?104192-Ten24-Photorealistic-Male-Body

 

 

You can do some  superb work in Lightwave...there's a whole lifetime of potential work there...

 

 

body_final_wire.jpg

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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The things that Modo can do that lightwave can't can be done better in 3Dcoat. I prefer Lightwave's renderer and the fact that it is more like two applications, i find it easy to use and navigate,the workspace feels very open ans easy on the eye. Other apps feel cluterred. Download the free demo and keep an open mind, What would you be crossgrading from?

Edited by IdotT

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What's funny is you won't hear people complaining about using modo for modelling and maya for animation and houdini for fx. Ofoourse there's the sculpting which is done in zbrush. Thats four split appz. :p

Personally though I wouldn't go with any software other than autodesk if I was looking for a studio job. No other software is a consideration except cinema4d.

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What's funny is you won't hear people complaining about using modo for modelling and maya for animation and houdini for fx. Ofoourse there's the sculpting which is done in zbrush. Thats four split appz. :p

Personally though I wouldn't go with any software other than autodesk if I was looking for a studio job. No other software is a consideration except cinema4d.

 

 

Yeah but the question was about the hobbyist...so that LW deal is pretty damned good for the hobbyist.

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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What's funny is you won't hear people complaining about using modo for modelling and maya for animation and houdini for fx. Ofoourse there's the sculpting which is done in zbrush. Thats four split appz. :p

Personally though I wouldn't go with any software other than autodesk if I was looking for a studio job. No other software is a consideration except cinema4d.

That's not a valid argument to make. Why? Because most individual users PREFER to stay in one app. That's why Max is so successful. Not so much the app itself, but all the plugins that let you STAY in the app for most of your work, if not all of it. Studios that do have a mixed pipeline, typically have different artists working in the different apps....not that same guy doing the whole thing.

 

There is a reason why this has been the No.1 reason those outside of the LW community perceive it to be obsolete software. It was outdated more than a decade ago, and rather than charging full steam ahead, with CORE, they went back to the ancient relics, that is Modeler and Layout. One can ignore this reality all they want, but it won't change a thing. The longer they go with a split app structure, the more irrelevant it becomes in the industry.

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That's not a valid argument to make. Why? Because most individual users PREFER to stay in one app. That's why Max is so successful.

 

For Max and it's plugins, you could almost say Krakatoa is a different app sitting on top of max, same with RealFlow (insert big plugin here)..etc

Those are pipeline tools driving max.

 

Either way, as long as those add-ons/companion modules play nice with the host app, I don't have a problem switching panels.

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For Max and it's plugins, you could almost say Krakatoa is a different app sitting on top of max, same with RealFlow (insert big plugin here)..etc

Those are pipeline tools driving max.

 

Either way, as long as those add-ons/companion modules play nice with the host app, I don't have a problem switching panels.

There are a TON of cheap/free plugins/scripts for 3ds Max. CAT Survival Toolkit, PolyFX, and an amazing MoGraph-like plugin...for $25. ATK (Animator's Toolkit)

 

 

The point here is....people like to STAY inside one application to do all the tasks they need, rather than bounce around, from app to app....OUT OF NECESSITY. Not choice. Don't confuse inability with flexibility.

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That's not a valid argument to make. Why? Because most individual users PREFER to stay in one app.

 

That's not a fact. Do you have statistical numbers????

Its a matter of taste. The actual pro artist with good work posted on the net work with multiple appz.

They animate in maya/xsi but model somewhere else, modo, lw, silo, etc. Isn't that familiar? One modelling app and one animation and rendering app. Its been like that for ages.

And as I said people even sculpt in zbrush its so common to do it this way. Thats 3 minimum appz.

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That's not a fact. Do you have statistical numbers????

Its a matter of taste. The actual pro artist with good work posted on the net work with multiple appz.

They animate in maya/xsi but model somewhere else, modo, lw, silo, etc. Isn't that familiar? One modelling app and one animation and rendering app. Its been like that for ages.

And as I said people even sculpt in zbrush its so common to do it this way. Thats 3 minimum appz.

Yeah, I got FACTS. LW's footprint in the industry is declining rapidly. I have friends trying to sell their seat of LW after waiting and waiting and waiting for years. I had a seat for years, myself. CORE was their last best chance, and canning it turned off a lot of folks. You can deny it all you want to, but even the DAVE school....which was big on LW for the longest time....has abandoned it in favor or Modo and Maya. You can ignore the reality of it's decline all you want, but plenty of long-time LW loyalists will readily admit it. It's harder and harder to find jobs where LW is used, and that is just a cold, hard fact...not rhetoric.

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Their own forums:

 

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?122232-Interesting-trend-in-LW-usage-statistics-on-NewTek-s-own-web-site

 

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?143467-Another-slam-on-Lightwave

 

Notice how the Lightwave section of the Newtek forums got bumped down below the Tri-Caster and 3Play sections....telling. Very....telling, indeed.

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And whether a studio CHOOSES to use a separate app to model or animate in, it's still a CHOICE. Not an arbitrary restriction placed on them by outdated architecture.

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BIG, BIG difference. Lightwave forces users to have to switch back and forth between apps. Studios choosing to do different things in different apps is merely a preference. The dual app structure of Lightwave Modeler and Layout is not a matter of preference. It's mandatory.

 

Once again, the fact that plugins are the main strength of 3ds Max kills your theory that EVERYBODY uses multiple apps to do multiple tasks. Maya, too. With Modo, you don't HAVE to do your texture painting or sculpting outside of it. It's pretty capable...as is Blender....of doing much of it right in the app. But if a user WANTS more options, they can do so with ZB, 3DC or MB. It comes down to "choice." You don't have it with LW. With Modo and other unified apps, you do.

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Studios choosing to do different things in different apps is merely a preference. T

 

 

Using multiple appz is not a preference. They use the best tool for the job. For some its a combination of a lot of appz. Animation in maya, fx render in lightwave. Model in lightwave, animate in 3dmax/maya. Model in modo, animate in xsi/maya/messiah, etc.

 

This guy is JUST a modeller and look what he's using.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6foPK0OJUk&list=PLhzW_gP1MA15SyOHyat3m__od_TtTe0BS&index=1

 

ZBrush (preferably 4R6 P2)

3Ds Max 2014

Maya 2014

3D Coat

 

Studios need versatility. A veteran artist will use even more than that. That's what artists do in a studio and get versatility and skills that comes in working in a studio.

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Using multiple apps most certainly ARE a matter of preference. Since when does Autodesk force users to model in Max and animate in Maya? This is nothing more than flawed rationalizations to excuse Lightwave's old split app structure. Brad, Allen and Stu realized it was time to start anew a decades ago and it's amazing to see how many LW loyalists still try to defend it's most glaring flaw, still.

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Yeah Lightwave 's separation into  two apps is the problem of the app. Having two apps one for modelling, weight maps and other vertex maps and another for animation and rendering obliges users to have a more linear workflow for sure, and some problems when rigging/ testing rigs and other stuff. Though in good hands can produce awesome results. it is used still for many tv series for example. So it is worth a try and see if it fits someone's needs rather than discarding it totally.

Modo came after and has the good advantage over Lw of being totally  unified under a single environment, but still is not as robust as it should be for now and seems to have inherited some problems in performance related to animation from Lw. Probably the next release will be more robust as many users are requesting better performance and responsiveness for animation. Modelling is just good since it was born as a modelling app since the start.

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Thanks Carlosan for the houdini link, but I tried to learn the free warermark version a couple of years back. It was way to hard to wrap my old brain around. I just put houdini in my post to make sure lightwave wasn't that hard. I then moved on to blender and got a little good with it, but for me I'm not really interested animation and all that particle stuff. Way too much clutter on the UI with things I didn't need. Then I came to 3DC and started learning. (thanks for all the tremendous tutorials) I really like the idea of being able to do everything in one app, but wish 3DC had a better renderer like cycles, where it's easy to set up lights , cameras,and materials, etc.So I think  that my best course of action would be to go with Marmoset Toolbag 2. It's cheap and gets desirable results.

The only other thing I would like to be able to do would be to  create all my characters with symmetry in 3DC and then pose the into whatever action I wanted. I really do like all the paint tools in 3DC and would like to be able to do everything  with one app. It would be nice to have a better renderer and some modest form of rigging. Oh well.

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