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Lizbot

How to get UV sets the same in retopo room and UV room.

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Hi everyone, thanks for the help...

 

Ive made new uv sets, transferred the islands to the respective sets then used the update uv sets, then deleted unused sets, the new uv set applied and appears in the paint room but the old ones remain in the retopo room.

When i try upload the mesh to secondlife, it appears the old UV set is the one exported because im getting black space and massive stretching on the texture. What have i done wrong for this?

 

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Sorry I did not understand your workflow.

You imported a model in paint room and want to modify the uvsets? The tool to do that is UV room. Those two rooms are interconnected.

But if you have a model in the paint room, you have done the retopology in retopo room and used the bake tool, the result will be seen in the paint room where you can finish painting the figure.

Hope it help

 

3DC workflow1.jpg

3DCworkflow3.jpg

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@Lizbot UV room and Retopo UVs are not connected on any way, they are total different meshes inside 3DCoat, one is called Retopo Object and the other is called Paint Object. So that shouldn't be the problem you are having, once something is in Paint room, the Paint Object cares only about what Paint, Tweak and UV rooms do.

So, to Update Paint room objects UVs, you use the UV room, once you hit the "Apply UV-set button" then it's done, you dont have to do anything else, you will paint, see and use the new UVs, even if you already have paint on it, 3DCoat will automatically re-project the paint layers to the new UVs, so it should look almost the same before you did any UV change. If you are bringing your mesh from other 3D software and changing the UVs, then you have to make sure you are importing into Second Life the mesh with new UVs you export using Export Objects and Textures (for Second Life, don't forget to check Z-up coordinate system so it will be oriented correctly when you import it).

 

Also, as a side note, If you need to or want to update the Paint Objects with the Retopo Object for whatever reason, like if you make a change on the topology and decided to create new UVs and all inside retopo room. You can use Bake menu and use "Update Paint mesh with Retopo mesh", which replaces currently visible object in Paint room or "Retopo -> Per Pixel Object (no baking)" which doesn't replace anything and creates a new Paint Object along with the ones you had before.

 

If you keep having problems you can always share a video or screenshots and it would be easier to see what the problem is because 3DCoat should work fine, or you might get other issues but not black and stretching because of any UV related issue.

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Thanks for the replys. I managed to figure out what was going wrong with the UVs not syncing.

First off, the different rooms are handy because they break the tools down and its not so overwhelming, but... the fact that some of them don't synchronize with each other is really confusing when you are trying to learn the program. I have to say im not a fan of the disconnect, its illogical to me.

This is my bumbling workflow.

1. Sculpting room

2. Retopology - I do the UVs in here because.. why wouldnt you if it has the exact tools as the UV room?

3. Paint room - export low poly model and 2k textures

4. Upload to SL to discover the textures are not acceptably clear.

5. Go back to retopo and clear uvs and break them up into different sets,

6. Bake from retopo room

7. Got to UV room and update UV's

8. Go Back to paint room and export the mesh and textures again

9. Upload to SL to discover that the UV set faces did not translate to the mesh and is now a mess of stretched textures and black parts.

10. Scream obscenities into pillow

11. Delete project and start again in frustration.

 

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@Emi Thanks for explaining about the Paint and Retopo objects, I really didnt understand that

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@Lizbot

Well, that's understandable, but somehow they can connect to each other, even if they are not the same type of mesh. You can watch videos like this in the 3DCoat youtube channel that will explain this a bit better about the meshes inside 3DCoat. There are other videos like Paint Object to sculpt mesh, that explain things about transferring between rooms. if you are interested.

 

 

Talking about your workflow. You actually have to create the UVs inside the retopo room when you create the retopo mesh inside 3DCoat, the UV room is only meant for objects you create outside 3DCoat or for whatever reason, like in this case, you did the texturing and you want to tweak the UVs after you saw the textures weren't clear inside SL. But UV room is where you want to do anything, or the tweak room, since they are meant for Paint Objects, and if you manipulate or modify something the Paint room will take care of any reprojection that has to be done on the new UVs. 

 

So forget about step 5 and 6 and the retopo room after you tested your textures in SL. Because unless you are doing a change in your sculpture and you want to bake some new sculpt details or change something into the retopo mesh and then bake it to a Paint Object, then going to retopo room is useless. since you can do changes to the UV in UV room, then you go back to Paint room 3DCoat will try to reproject the changes from one UV to the new one or ones you created. sometimes the changes make the textures look less crisp but it does an okay job most of the time.


My question now, are you sure that Second Life supports multiple UV sets? I tried to research, looked up the second life wiki and all the guides and there is no mention about it. Maybe Second Life is just ignoring more than the normal single tile 0-1 UV coordinates? and/or maybe it is not reading the multiple UV sets from the mesh and it only cares about the first one? like some software do. so when you import the second UV set texture, it will only overlap and show the black texturing you talk about, because it is not supported by SL.

I mean, it seems like it worked first when you had one single UV texture, and when we talk about game engines and real time, something like multiple UV sets and UDIMs or anything like that can be tricky, some programs can't work and read outside the 0,1 UV coordinate allowing you to have multiple textures but they can't overlap because they are meant to work on the 0,1 UV coordinates. Others might not even allow you multiple textures and just a single one with everything.

It's been 10 years since I was on Second Life, so I can't test it, but if you can only do 1 texture per object in Second life, all you can do is pack your UVs the best you can, whatever is not really visible or important give a smaller UV space. so the important parts will have enough texture resolution and look nice.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Emi said:

Talking about your workflow. You actually have to create the UVs inside the retopo room when you create the retopo mesh inside 3DCoat,the UV room is only meant for objects you create outside 3DCoat or for whatever reason,like in this case, you did the texturing and you want to tweak the UVs after you saw the textures weren't clear inside SL. But UV room is where you want to do anything, or the tweak room, since they are meant for Paint Objects, and if you manipulate or modify something the Paint room will take care of any reprojection that has to be done on the new UVs.


My question now, are you sure that Second Life supports multiple UV sets? I tried to research, looked up the second life wiki and all the guides and there is no mention about it. Maybe Second Life is just ignoring more than the normal single tile 0-1 UV coordinates? and/or maybe it is not reading the multiple UV sets from the mesh and it only cares about the first one? like some software do. so when you import the second UV set texture, it will only overlap and show the black texturing you talk about, because it is not supported by SL.

Yes I am making the UVs in the retopo room and then making changes afterwards in the UV room. Secondlife supports multiple faces on one object, the problem is i dont  think 3d coat can do it. ive watched those videos before too, thanks.

I used to make an object in maya, and be able to upload it with all the separate uv faces but one UV set, so that you could apply different textures to all those faces, which meant you could increase the resolution by splitting the faces up into their own 1k files, instead of just having a 1k file to do an entire object, it would be a few 1k files over the object. 3d coat cant do this. I have managed to make an object, with the surface split into 4 different uv sets to try an achieve this better resolution, only to have the mesh surface not correspond with the new sets/faces. but perhaps i am doing it the incorrect way by using images that arent large enough?

Its ok to prioritize larger faces but some of the objects im making are large, like 64 metres by 64 metres so its not going to work doing it like that. i dont think 3d coat even lets you cut a mesh into pieces and export it like maya does. i build entire sim builds so if 3d coat cant do this, it wont work for me at all, ive already lost two weeks trying to sort this out.

Edited by Lizbot
missed info

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Can you show current UV island and UV sets how assgined for your mesh? I suppose  you means "mutliple faces" =  Material group (material slots) , and which merged in one UV tile.

As you said,  3d coat can not keep mesh as one UV set, if mesh have  different material groups,   unfortunetly there is no way. if you separate as material groups, it means you use separate UV sets for each material, then you can paint mesh with eadh UVsets.

 but If you only need textures, you  can generate textures for each UV sets with your choose resolution.    Then you assign  each textures in your app (which you render with keep default one UV . 

So if I were you,

make merged one UV sets. but unwrap with selection (which you suppose as you need).  then export mesh with one UV. unfortunately you need to assgin material group (of material slots etc) in your apps.  Then import in 3d coat with use option. "Treat material as separate textures". It separate UV as different tiles correspond to your material group. 

then bake or make textures in 3d coat generate them with UVset (individuall resolution)

 

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@Lizbot 

Well, that make it easier to understand what you are trying to achieve and what you did in Maya that you try to do in 3DCoat. Based on your post, the way you are doing your UVs and all, should work exactly as you want, and it should technically work as I read it. Maya, of course, to me is easier to deal with on many things, but in this case the only thing 3DCoat doesn't have that Maya respecting UVs is the stacking of UVs, but besides that, everything should work fine since you can unpack each UVset to the whole 0,1 square easily like in Maya.

The only thing I can see causing the trouble is the way you are exporting, but mostly this: are you exporting with Export UV sets as tiles checked? that small checkbox would be most important thing about your workflow because if that's not checked then only 1 map will be created and not individual images for each UVset. That's the only step I can see that might be ruining the workflow.

I tested this in Marmoset Toolbag making different UVsets with 1 mesh, everything overlapping, painting them caused no problem. I even separated those UVsets faces to their own mesh (or retopogroup, yes, 3DCoat can split meshes, you only need to put faces on different retopogroups, the problem is I don't think 3DCoat can export them individually after painting them, only retopo room shows export selected and export separate retopo meshes.), and it worked exactly the same, I didn't even need to change anything and displayed as intended. 

Edited by Emi
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On 3/30/2019 at 6:07 AM, Emi said:

The only thing I can see causing the trouble is the way you are exporting, but mostly this: are you exporting with Export UV sets as tiles checked? that small checkbox would be most important thing about your workflow because if that's not checked then only 1 map will be created and not individual images for each UVset. That's the only step I can see that might be ruining the workflow.

Thanks again for your reply, I have tried this both ways, but I am going to try again because i did overwrite the file and perhaps that could have messed it up.

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@Lizbot 

So I installed Second Life (after so many years) and made some tests. And I definitely encountered some problems, some can be 'easily' fixed, but there is one that I can't still figure out.

1. One of the problems is the way that 3DCoat is exporting COLLADA files for me, when I opened the DAE files in Notepad++, I noticed that the images path always have this nonsense path: file:///C:/Program%20Files/3D-Coat-V4.8.36_SL/ instead of the one where my images really are. This was the reason why the Textures preview stuff in SL mesh upload preview wasn't working. I am not sure if you encountered with this problem.... But if you do, this is how to fix it, open it on notepad or notepad++ and replace the paths to the correct ones.

2. The second problem I encounter is with the UVsets, I tested this on a vest I made sometime ago, and it seems like one of the UVsets doesn't get exported with the correct material in the collada file. So the back of my vest, kept getting the zippers texture, that way it is impossible for SL to display it properly. I dont know what caused this, I tested it making texture sets one by one, and eventually it just failed and even if I created a new UVset it wouldn't get fixed. Restating 3DCoat didn't fix it, Deleting that UVset but adding more make the problem appear again and even happened on 2 UVsets displaying incorrectly. I tested it on the default 24 faces cube inside 3DCoat, and it worked fine, so I don't know what triggered this issue but it seems to be 3DCoat and Collada with multiple UVsets. I just tested doing the UVs externally and imported to be painted inside 3DCoat, apply colors quickly and exported and same issue, maybe it is just an issue with the back of the vest as a single UVset, but it happens and might happen with other meshes.

So the only easy way of fixing that issue easily if you get that problem is to use Maya, I would let 3DCoat take care of the texturing and doing the retopo and all that, and if the problem happens Maya can easily fix this since it is just faces not getting the proper material. With texture hardware enabled, it is easy to see which UV doesn't have the correct material applied, and then selecting the polygons of those UVs and assigning the correct material and add the images and such will do the job.

If you don't have Maya, blender would be the best answer I guess just for this, I don't use blender but I guess since it is promoted all over SL forums, then it should work fine, and I guess you would have to do the same about attaching the right material to the proper faces and export it again and it should work.

 

I even went to the Beta SL grid to test uploading the mesh and stuff, I don't know how the "select faces" should work, but I kept selecting faces and assigning the texture and it was displaying correctly so, that was working. it was like selecting small chunks of polygons at a time which seems weird to me, but it was displaying the correct info at least. so it seems technically 3DCoat works but there are some problems in the way it exports the Collada file. Like I even encountered errors when importing the collada file to marmoset yesterday when I tried it splitting the mesh into different retopogroups. But it can work, and it is easier if you use Maya or blender to fix those small issues, in the end using those programs and photoshop or whatever, allow you to do more with texture than just exporting like you would do with 3DCoat to be uploaded straight away. But yeah, this is these issues are the reason I never liked collada format too much, but we can't do much about it since it's all SL accepts. 

Edited by Emi

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@Lizbot So I tested on beta grid the upload of the model, I found out that even if you can make it work straight out of 3DCoat, it works and you only put the textures where they belong and the UVset that gets screwed can easily be fixed.

but I found out that even the way Collada exports the UVsets is weird because when you click "select faces" it should grab the faces with the same material, so you can change easily the textures, but when the collada comes from 3DCoat, it would put some pieces of my model together, and not necessarily the ones attached to the material. So another reason why using blender or maya would be better for now. Because while 3DCoat works, it's not what it should be. Hope this info helps you!

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Hi 

Collada export issue bug was reported to developers.

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