3D-Coat 3.2 updates thread.

[Cube]

I have a quick qeustion for Andrew if it's not too much trouble. I am trying to decide what to upgrade on my computer first to get some higher performance for 3D-Coat. I'm not talking about merge time, just FPS with fairly high detail model (8-16m poly). Currently i have:

Core2Duo E6750 2.66ghz

4gb ram

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB

Now at the moment i can work on a model of about 16m poly's without dipping into page file, so i am guessing that CPU/GPU are the best option. Can you advise me which one will be a better upgrade to increase sculpting performance? If the answer is GPU i will go for an Nvidia card for CUDA support, do you think it's worth waiting for the new Fermi cards at the end of March?

Thanks a lot.

BTW, the performance now is actually very good considering my system is old, it would just be nice to get a bit more responsive control at higher detail.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I have a quick qeustion for Andrew if it's not too much trouble. I am trying to decide what to upgrade on my computer first to get some higher performance for 3D-Coat. I'm not talking about merge time, just FPS with fairly high detail model (8-16m poly). Currently i have:

Core2Duo E6750 2.66ghz

4gb ram

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB

Now at the moment i can work on a model of about 16m poly's without dipping into page file, so i am guessing that CPU/GPU are the best option. Can you advise me which one will be a better upgrade to increase sculpting performance? If the answer is GPU i will go for an Nvidia card for CUDA support, do you think it's worth waiting for the new Fermi cards at the end of March?

Thanks a lot.

BTW, the performance now is actually very good considering my system is old, it would just be nice to get a bit more responsive control at higher detail.

By no means you should upgrade video to NVidia. GTX265-285 in dependence on acceptable price.

Second - memory to 8GB and 64 bit OS (probably you are using 64 bit OS).

[Andrew Shpagin]

OSX build on first page re-uploaded in order to test how my changes will help in merging speed.

But - all progress bars are removed, they was causing the problem, it is just quicktestfix.

[Cube]

By no means you should upgrade video to NVidia. GTX265-285 in dependence on acceptable price.

Second - memory to 8GB and 64 bit OS (probably you are using 64 bit OS).

Thanks Andrew, i thought maybe my video card was the problem, i will get more ram instead and see how things work out (good news for me, much cheaper upgrade!). I am on Windows 7 64bit.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Thanks Andrew, i thought maybe my video card was the problem, i will get more ram instead and see how things work out (good news for me, much cheaper upgrade!). I am on Windows 7 64bit.

Oh excuse, my english language fault

I mean:

First you should upgrade video to NVidia. GTX265-285 in dependence on acceptable price.

Second - memory to 8GB and 64 bit OS (probably you are using 64 bit OS).

In addition - GPU speeds up voxel operations like sphere, extrude, airbrush, carve.

And ESPECIALLY essentially if you are painting with masks.

But there is no advantage in surface tools.

[Cube]

Oh excuse, my english language fault

I mean:

First you should upgrade video to NVidia. GTX265-285 in dependence on acceptable price.

Second - memory to 8GB and 64 bit OS (probably you are using 64 bit OS).

In addition - GPU speeds up voxel operations like sphere, extrude airbrush, sphere, carve.

But there is no advantage in surface tools.

Aha no problem!

I think the expression you were looking for is 'by all means' - your English is very good, there are a lot of expressions that are confusing even for native English speakers!

[ifxs]

OSX build on first page re-uploaded in order to test how my changes will help in merging speed.

But - all progress bars are removed, they was causing the problem, it is just quicktestfix.

I'll download and test very soon, with reports on any performance changes I experience. Thank you Andrew, your attention to the development of 3DC is a very redeeming point that I would like more developers to apply. Should I use this forum to post any results I get from this new OSX build? OR another thread?

[Andrew Shpagin]

I'll download and test very soon, with reports on any performance changes I experience. Thank you Andrew, your attention to the development of 3DC is a very redeeming point that I would like more developers to apply. Should I use this forum to post any results I get from this new OSX build? OR another thread?

Use this thread better.

[ifxs]

OK, testing 3.2.0.4a on OSX,

Testing on the same 2.4million poly Vox model I tested on before the release of this new build..... I can CONFIRM 3 things, very notable things IMO for 3DC on OSX....

#1: 3.2.04a now applies the POSE tool at about 3-4 times FASTER with this new build!!!!! YAY!!!!!!

#2: although switching to and from surface/volume is faster, it still takes about 5-6 minutes, but no longer 10-30 minutes!!!!!!!

#3: It's STILL USING ONLY 1 CORE, this process would be nearly realtime if it used the rest of my cores. Nonetheless, this does allow me to keep 3DC in some of the pipelines I participate in, at least for a few of my projects, and not completely take it out of my toolset for projects with deadlines, which makes me VERY happy!!! :-)

Thank you Andrew, not sure what you fixed, but its MUCH FASTER, very noticeably faster now, seems as fast as 3DC on Win7-64 now.

As AbnRanger, myself, and others have asked for, PLEASE implement multithreading for 3DC for the various vox operations(as well as paint room and other rooms too). If I have to pay for an upgrade to a special branch of 3DC to get this feature I WILL DO SO!!!!!, in order to show you how very important this feature is to me and others. We know you are busy, we know you have a home life, we know you're doing the majority of the workload on 3DC(AFAIK), however multithreading is one of those "not so fun to program" parts of 3DC that needs to be implemented immediately, before anything else, please, please, please..... I could then, in good conscience recommend this app to companies and individuals I work with in good confidence....

until then, at least you just sped the OSX 3DC up to a FAR MORE USEABLE speed!!!!!! now 30 minutes is 5-6 minutes, which is not great, but definitely useable on some of my projects again!!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Andrew is the voxel king!

EDIT: After a few more tests, I'm getting the average transform of a similar sized region to be around 5-6 minutes, not the 3-4 i originally posted, though this is leaps and bounds better than the 30 minutes I was getting before Andrew posted this new build!

[Andrew Shpagin]

One more advise to speed up -

paint some piece, then press enter. then paint and enter again....

Applying piece by piece will work much faster.

[ifxs]

One more advise to speed up -

paint some piece, then press enter. then paint and enter again....

Applying piece by piece will work much faster.

I do that CONSTANTLY in surface mode already, it does help when I'm in surface mode.... Whatever you did to the OSX build sped it up GREATLY, thank you Andrew!! :-)

EVERY OSX 3DC USER SHOULD DOWNLOAD AND USE THE NEW 3.2.04a Build!!!! It's awesome!!!!

Now to sound like a broken record again: multithreading please..... I need to merge in OBJ's with over 25+ million polys, and cant let my cpu process for over 12hours to do so on ONE CORE, I want my pose tool operations and voxel surface mode switching to use all my cores, thus being almost realtime!!! :-)

[Andrew Shpagin]

I do that CONSTANTLY in surface mode already, it does help when I'm in surface mode.... Whatever you did to the OSX build sped it up GREATLY, thank you Andrew!! :-)

EVERY OSX 3DC USER SHOULD DOWNLOAD AND USE THE NEW 3.2.04a Build!!!! It's awesome!!!!

Now to sound like a broken record again: multithreading please..... I need to merge in OBJ's with over 25+ million polys, and cant let my cpu process for over 12hours to do so on ONE CORE, I want my pose tool operations and voxel surface mode switching to use all my cores, thus being almost realtime!!! :-)

Of course I know how multithreading is need. It is not my lack of experience, I know multithreading programming well. But some tasks are not easy to do multithreaded. Anyway, some day I will do it too.

[ifxs]

Anyway, some day I will do it too.

I eagerly await this day... Till then I will enjoy and use 3DC in every project for which it is appropriate(time-wise). Thanks Andrew!!! :-)

Edit: I'm seeing definite improvements in the merging process for the pose tool after a few more tests on OSX, very time-saving, thanks Andrew.

[JamesE]

I eagerly await this day... Till then I will enjoy and use 3DC in every project for which it is appropriate(time-wise). Thanks Andrew!!! :-)

Edit: I'm seeing definite improvements in the merging process for the pose tool after a few more tests on OSX, very time-saving, thanks Andrew.

I haven't seen any of your work, but I'm wondering if you are utilizing other aspects of 3dc for your workflow that might help. When I have obvious seam areas where I know I can separate a voxel mesh into separate parts I take advantage of this and either copy it to a new layer with the copy brush or just break it off so that I can up the rez independently. This is really just old school zbrush practice as well but I've found it works much better with voxels due to their freeform nature. Works great for oranic and hard surface stuff. Maybe you are already doing this though, as I said I haven't seen what you are doing with the software.

Cheers

[philnolan3d]

Fun fact: My friend at a big game studio just told me that some of their environment guys have been testing out 3DC and that he himself has used it for retopo and texture painting.

[ifxs]

Thanks for the tips JamesE! :-) very helpful, Sounds like I might be doing a version of that technique on some of voxel sculpts that call for more detail in certain regions, but I dont need to increase res for the entire sculpt, so I split it, as I think you're describing too. I'm having issue with polys jumping when backing such separated and smoothed meshes when moving to the paint room, I'm trying to find a fix for it.

The method you describe seems like workaround that works pretty well for now in most cases, till the vox room is multithreaded(like a broken record I am sounding ;-)....

[AbnRanger]

Anyone else still having issues with the Transform Gizmo on merged objects. This is another issue I thought had been fixed some time ago. Has it reverted to it's old behavior again....merging an OBJ model and the transform Gizmo is nowhere near the model. In the image, I'm merging a set of teeth...and the gizmo is way off the model. Clicking "Center in Local Space" does nothing...nada.

I guess this is only an issue myself and ifxs happens to be experiencing...nobody else, eh?

[Javis]

Naw, this has been happening to me lately as well.

[Cube]

I have a quick question, currently i am running 3.2.0.1 and i have 10 days left on my free trial, is it possible to install 3.2.0.4 and continue until the trial ends - or will it cancel the trial?

If it's possible to do this, should i uninstall 3.2.0.1 first then install 3.2.0.4, or just install over the top of existing version?

Thanks.

[philnolan3d]

I would think it should be OK to just overwrite the current one, but since it's a trial I don't want to say 100% for sure.

[Cube]

I decided to take the chance and you were right, it installed fine directly over the previous version and the trial is still running too.

9 more days until i need to get my credit card out lol (just need to rmemeber to buy while the discount is still active!)

[philnolan3d]

Good! Yeah it would suck to remmeber a day too late.

[Costanel]

Perhaps this is a stupid question: but is there an Freeze option for voxels?

I thought is was there, but I can only find the hide tools.

If it isn't available yet, I would think this would become available soon, I really mis this option!

Thanks in advance.

[philnolan3d]

It's actually a fairly recent feature. You can find it in Surface mode. (Click the cube next to your voxel layer)

[ifxs]

technically you cant freeze voxels, but you can freeze the surface representation of them(in voxel-surface mode), then un-freeze the surface representation of voxels and continue working in voxels. For me, it would be VERY useful if we could actualy freeze the voxels though..

Here's a very useful video by the great Javis on the very topic of surface-freezing in 3D Coat

[Maximus3D]

There seems to be a issue with retopo tools when the meshes you retopo have long elongated polygons, the snapping in 3DC goes nuts and it will give you very strange results and that even with snapforce set at zero. This makes it pretty painful to build a new topology onto a mesh.

/ Magnus

[AbnRanger]

technically you cant freeze voxels, but you can freeze the surface representation of them(in voxel-surface mode), then un-freeze the surface representation of voxels and continue working in voxels. For me, it would be VERY useful if we could actualy freeze the voxels though..

Here's a very useful video by the great Javis on the very topic of surface-freezing in 3D Coat

BTW...on the merge issue (lack of Multi-threading for the task)...I restarted on my little Hobbit character, wanting to showcase something of note for 3DC, and after starting fresh from surface mode and only a few brush strokes, I take Andrew's advice to hit ENTER...guess how long I had to wait? 3hrs had passed and it was still in full choke mode. I decided to kill 3DC in Task Manager. There is no way to get mid-high level detail on a character sculpt done in Voxels with a tight deadline. You are asking for trouble if you do. You have to exercise a litany of workarounds...including hiding most of the object you're working on. Voxels choke well before either MB or ZB will...and waiting hours for surface mode to either update or merge is a major no-go.

I think the best answer right now is to drop Ptex development for a spell, as there is scant support for it (according to Artman, it already works for regular obj exporting)...mirror the surface tools to the Sculpt room, and focus on improving that toolset until sculpting is competitive with Mudbox and ZBrush.

Voxels are great for what they can do, but they are also a major impediment to 3DC for what they can't do, or struggle to do....and that is to sculpt a high detail model with a deadline in mind. Merge operations are as lengthy as rendering out an entire animation sequence. Even if Multi-threading was introduced into the equation, the wait times would still be unreasonably slow. I think we all thought Voxels was the Holy Grail of Sculpting, but as it turns out, it is not...not even on a beefy system.

[haikalle]

Dropping Ptex development would not be smart. I think that Andrew is like 70-80 % from finishing this great feature. It is smart to finish Ptex and then focus 100% to next

big thing... Even we don't see the full power of Ptex it would be smart to do Ptex models. And when all the renderer program includes this then ...Boom ... 3d-coat gallery rapidly

increase with beatiful Ptex models. But I agree with you AbnRanger with many things. In 3d-coat there is some issues that make our lifes sometimes difficult. And I think Andrew

already knows them, very well

[Yann]

Hi all,

Even more exciting, release after release ! The only big problem I keep having : SpaceNavigator is totally unusable on the Mac - at least on every Mac I have tested 3DCoat on. Does anyone know if Andrew is planning a fix for this ?

[Andrew Shpagin]

I think the best answer right now is to drop Ptex development for a spell, as there is scant support for it (according to Artman, it already works for regular obj exporting)...mirror the surface tools to the Sculpt room, and focus on improving that toolset until sculpting is competitive with Mudbox and ZBrush.

Drop some thing that is done on 85-90% is not too smart.

Productivity on doing other stuff will be dropped too because of my personal frustration because of big unfinished stuff.

So please, please be patient for some time. Let me finish Ptex. And - it is really useful even for regular export for renders that does not support Ptex. And, every build brings not only Ptex, there are multiple bug/usability fixes.