Reputable Contributor digman Posted November 5, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 @ Wave of light and stusutcliffe Before exporting your models or saving the file try the below... First make a backup copy of your file. Under the voxel menu run these three tools in a row for surface mode objects, right after each other to see if you can repair the mesh before exporting object or saving the file. Clean surface. If that produces artifacts in the mesh, press undo and then run legacy fix first. Now go back and start the process over again starting with Clean surface. Legacy fix Clean up memory. Those three in that order seems to work the best for cleaning up any screw up meshes that I have but is not foolproof. Test now by loading in version 3 after doing the process and keep your fingers cross... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted November 5, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I try that stuff all the time.Sometimes it makes thing better,other times things just explode! But in this case I think I only tried it after I noticed it was messed up. But going back and looking at a few saves from even before I went from 4 to 3 it was messed up before that even! So my head is totally messed up as well.( my actual head not just my model head!) Ive got where Im going with this model at the moment ..retopo finnished in 4, all good ...I hope. So Im not going back to 3 with this one at the moment....... right ,unwrap and uv.....the adventure continues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted November 5, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 @digman: I will give this a go on one of my Thing sculpts when I get back in the office. I will also reply to your response in the Thing thread cheers. @stusutcliffe: keep us posted on progress, coz I will be crossing that bridge at some point. And finally. Should we be Mantis'n backwardly compatibly bugs/mesh explodes? I mean, if when v4 us released, whould you a) want to go back to v3 if you've purchased 4 and in doesn't matter to those who don't opt to upgrade to 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 5, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Here's the artefacts I'm on about: (surface mode - V3 opening a V4 file) http://bit.ly/VtOwEH (returning the layer to voxel mode) http://bit.ly/VtOb4G I had reported a similar (if not identical) problem to Raul a few weeks ago. He just sent me a message that in the future, that should be prevented, but he made a De-Compose tool to sort out the trash (extra/floating geometry on the same layer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted November 5, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Wave of Light, Finally made it all the way thru to paint! Though only after numerous attempts at uv -ing etc.I always seem to miss something or get a little glitch that makes me want to have another go.Also cos Ive only got access to 2k maps ,I feel it would be a bit neater looking if they were 4k,maybe I should raid my savings and upgrade! Though after my umpteenth attempt the one I went for is not bad at all! I find its a bit like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day...every time you go through the process you get a little bit better with it. I won't clog up this thread with progress reports,but hopefully will post the final in the appropriate thread,and also on my blog.Keep an eye out for the "Riddler" muhahahahah! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Retopo room is just downright nasty. Just hovered over the Delete Polygons tool and 3D Coat just vanished into thin air. No crash or instability notice. Just BAM.....gone. Happened yesterday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Dang....keep losing work because of this mess. Application closing on it's own in a split second. No chance to even save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member johnnycore Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Dang....keep losing work because of this mess. Application closing on it's own in a split second. No chance to even save. I feel your pain.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 @AbnRanger - yep, that happened to me yesterday when doing a quick Retopo and paint. Program just vanished. @Digman - Ok, I tried the steps in the order you gave and that didn't work. When I did the LegacyFix the mesh exploded. However, when I tried some different combinations, one worked. I did 'clean up memory' first then 'clean surface' saved and reopened in V3. Now, take a look at the attached screenshot, for some reason it brings in a extra layer called Volume4, which doesn't contain anything. http://bit.ly/WtW3Va Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted November 6, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Looks like the bugs I encounter every time I try to do a complex char in vox room are finaly available to everyone ! Enjoy, I hope this time they really get fixed, not some workaround like legacy fix and cleanup memory which are healersl, not features... something that makes 3dcoat very unpro when you've got to explain what they're for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Ok, spent all day messing about with this model. I'm trying to do quick Autopo to Per Pixel and seemed to be getting nowhere fast. When I get to the paint room, it looks like my layer is hidden, only parts of the mesh showing. Am I doing something wrong, missing a setting or something? http://rsldesigns.co.uk/images/2012-11-06_Autoretopo.swf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Turn off "Show voxels in Paintroom under the view menu in the paintroom.... You are seeing both your surface mode object and your PPP model... The voxel showing in the paintroom was added so we could polypaint (vertex painting) in the paintroom without using uv maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thank you once again Digman, you certainly do know this program. I hope you're going to be part of the V4 manual process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Updated to BETA5. Win. Mac+Linux sent to programmer, expected soon. Changes: - a lot of bugfixes to stabilize 3DC. Many of them are critical fixes. Especially in retopo room. - new Bridge tool (Raul) - Decompose (Separate disconnected pieces) tool (Raul) - you may choose if material is tiled or not - Save files will be saved to temporary file an then renamed so that previous version of file will not be corrupted if crash happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted November 6, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 - Decompose (Separate disconnected pieces) tool (Raul) Oh my, another disaster waiting to happen. Sometimes you don't see the ugly voxel cubes floating all around your model, because the actual mesh isn't refreshed, I wonder what happen if I activate this with 100k's of floating tiny cubes/bits... Those working with fairly complex voxel meshes with surface<>vox conversion will understand what I'm saying here... Another crash case which will need to be prevented... Edit (didn't see the perfect example of the nightmare to come): New workflow, get unrefreshed mesh, press decompose, wait, reboot computer ! Btw this doesn't need to be a bug, you get this kind of artefact just by puting things too close from the symmetry axis (how many time did I get "streams of cubes" between the legs, or under the arms, of a character while brushing in vox mode !)... and sometimes the floating bit are so small you'll probably get a handful of new layers coming from (seamingly) nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Decompose is not just "bugfixing workaround" but it is important modeling tool to separate disconnected parts that appeared after cuttung or merging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted November 6, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I know, I understand the concept, it's just I'm sure it's not shielded against those cases and will definitely crash or freeze the program. Just wait... In any case I'm sure the new users getting the tiny bits floating around the mesh (most of the time you don't notice them unless your bring it to zbrush where they can be visible easily), will love getting a few dozen layers from object they didn't see in the first place, it will be very easy to understand for them... To be clear: I'm not against this function (in fact I like it, it allows importing base meshes with a single obj file which is cool), but this is another case of adding a feature before fixing a bug which will create a major bug in the end... It may look like I'm overdramatizing here, but I'm CERTAIN some users here have experienced this more often than they would like to admit it With this function it'll be fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I know, I understand the concept, it's just I'm sure it's not shielded against those cases and will definitely crash or freeze the program. Just wait... In any case I'm sure the new users getting the tiny bits floating around the mesh (most of the time you don't notice them unless your bring it to zbrush where they can be visible easily), will love getting a few dozen layers from object they didn't see in the first place, it will be very easy to understand for them... To be clear: I'm not against this function (in fact I like it, it allows importing base meshes with a single obj file which is cool), but this is another case of adding a feature before fixing a bug which will create a major bug in the end... It may look like I'm overdramatizing here, but I'm CERTAIN some users here have experienced this more often than they would like to admit it With this function it'll be fun ! This tool is a result of a bug I encountered working with LIVECLAY....not voxels. Somehow I got extra pieces of geometry (still in Surface mode/LiveClay), so I asked Raul if he would give us a way to separate any extra geometry like that. He said he prevented the root cause AND created this tool just in case we may need it.So blame me, Beat for reporting a bug, trying to get it fixed and asking for a troubleshooting tool..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted November 6, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 This tool is a result of a bug I encountered working with LIVECLAY....not voxels. Somehow I got extra pieces of geometry (still in Surface mode/LiveClay), so I asked Raul if he would give us a way to separate any extra geometry like that. He said he prevented the root cause AND created this tool just in case we may need it. So blame me, Beat for reporting a bug, trying to get it fixed and asking for a troubleshooting tool..... I don't blame anyone, don't make that mistake, this tool will be helpful for some tasks. The issue at hand is that some VERY OLD (3.0 !) bugs are still there in vox mode (your bug I got too, with detached patches of polys embedded in the mesh itself so I can see the goal of your request) and this tool is screaming trouble with those bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Of course we are not just trying to make new tool instead of fixing bug. Finding reason is always top priory but it is not easy, way to reproduse always helps a lot. In this or previous build (not sure which one) one reason of flying pieces was fixed (related to undo and save). So I hope things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted November 6, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Ok, all I can say is move + near symmetry axis "limbs" tends to create voxels stretches/cubes in voxel mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hi Don't worry and don't mix different unrelated things, one thing is bug fixing and other is adding new features: both are equally important and cannot made at the expense of each other. the first will give us a stable product and the second will give us a competitive product. We all want a stable product AND a cutting edge product that does not constrain artist possibilities. Of course we're working on both fronts, is just "bugs fixed" does not make cover news so they happens mostly ignored, and many people just don't take the patience to read development and release log that is where they are announced. but it does not mean we don't solve bugs. In fact Andrew is like a killing bug machine, he does know all the quirks and dirt of 3d Coat architecture so he can spot and solve them really quick. I'm currently more focused on LC areas AND research which is my passion and what I seems to do best. We're humans, some bugs get's like buried into Mantis over a long period because of dynamic priorities, but if you consider a spotted bug is important enough it could be good just to update its status in mantis with new information like reproducibility and details, that way it can comeback under our spotlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 And here's a demo of the new tool http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/decompose-tool/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Interesting, will take a look at this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted November 6, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 And here's a demo of the new tool http://farsthary.wor...decompose-tool/ Nice tool. Its like the mass deattach in 3dmax that splits into single separate elements. Would rather have it work by selection masks or regions instead of physically splitting the object with the cut tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hi Don't worry and don't mix different unrelated things, one thing is bug fixing and other is adding new features: both are equally important and cannot made at the expense of each other. the first will give us a stable product and the second will give us a competitive product. We all want a stable product AND a cutting edge product that does not constrain artist possibilities. Of course we're working on both fronts, is just "bugs fixed" does not make cover news so they happens mostly ignored, and many people just don't take the patience to read development and release log that is where they are announced. but it does not mean we don't solve bugs. In fact Andrew is like a killing bug machine, he does know all the quirks and dirt of 3d Coat architecture so he can spot and solve them really quick. I'm currently more focused on LC areas AND research which is my passion and what I seems to do best. We're humans, some bugs get's like buried into Mantis over a long period because of dynamic priorities, but if you consider a spotted bug is important enough it could be good just to update its status in mantis with new information like reproducibility and details, that way it can comeback under our spotlight. Thanks for the hard work on this, Raul and Andrew. I was just using Inflate Clay on a 2mill poly layer, detail level at default 3, and even with a small brush radius, it was practically useless. Excruciatingly slow and blotchy. When I switched to Voxel mode and used the GROW tool instead, it was like warm butter. I saved the file > closed the app > deleted the Options.xml file > Opened the file and tried InflateClay again. Same result.Is there anyway you could temporarily suspend the addition of new brushes and instead compile LiveClay to utilize CUDA? That would make sculpting in 3D Coat rock, in my opinion, and could be the BIG feature in V4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Nice tool. Its like the mass deattach in 3dmax that splits into single separate elements. Would rather have it work by selection masks or regions instead of physically splitting the object with the cut tool. You already have that capability. VoxLayer tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 @ AbnRanger Thanks, I think detail level 3 is too high subdiv level, and in a 3 mill poly it is much more evident,(tried with sub 1 detail level in teh brush? at such poly-count I don't think is even needed sub-div unless you are dealing with a really small brush and in that case performance should not be a problem,also try to disable the Quality box in LC tool, it dramatically improve performence in small strokes on heavily sobdivided areas, at the risk of getting some poles if the base detail level is not dense enough) of course, we're planning deep performance tuning of all LC foundation and tools after we get out of beta, so this are just temporal workaround and there are plenty of room for performance boost in the future . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thanks for the hard work on this, Raul and Andrew. I was just using Inflate Clay on a 2mill poly layer, detail level at default 3, and even with a small brush radius, it was practically useless. Excruciatingly slow and blotchy. When I switched to Voxel mode and used the GROW tool instead, it was like warm butter. I saved the file > closed the app > deleted the Options.xml file > Opened the file and tried InflateClay again. Same result. Is there anyway you could temporarily suspend the addition of new brushes and instead compile LiveClay to utilize CUDA? That would make sculpting in 3D Coat rock, in my opinion, and could be the BIG feature in V4. I got a question AbnRanger, I thought 1.200 was the default detail setting for any LC brushes. 3.000 is the highest you can scroll to but of course you can go higher by typing in manually. Your brush getting smaller would only make it worse as your detail level would increase even more as level of detail is related to brush size too. I worked on this 2 mil, sphere at 1.200 but at different brush sizes and everything was very smooth... I will take all the optimizing of the brushes I can though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted November 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I got a question AbnRanger, I though 1.200 was the default detail setting for any LC brushes. 3.000 is the highest you can scroll to but of course you can higher by typing in manuallly. Your brush getting smaller would only make it worse as your detail level would increase even more as level of detail is related to brush size too. I worked on this 2 mil, sphere at 1.200 at different brush sizes everthing was very smooth... Oh...that's right. I forgot about that. Cause in general, large brush sizes are a big bottleneck in 3D Coat. 3 was the default level after installing V4. This is why I opted to do no videos covering LiveClay. It's the one tool that seems to be a moving target and with no info available as to what settings work best in certain scenarios, I am in the dark about it. Have avoided using it unless necessary cause of all the damaging troubles with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts