Andrew Shpagin

3D-Coat 3.7 updates thread

1,787 posts in this topic

Andrew, When I get the 2-3 second delay after each brush stroke, if I create a new volume and cache it, even though there is nothing in it, then go back to the original volume and start working on my sculpt the delay is gone, so you don't need to create a sphere in the new volume, the action of caching the new volume fixes the delay in the original volume.

T.

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I finally figured out why my LiveClay brush was not adding or subtracting depth to the surface mesh in my Windows version of 3DCoat.

There is no depth selection setting for the LiveClay brush at the top of the menu like the other brushes. I had thought there was no way to change the depth of the brush while it was still in alpha / beta phase of development. I was wrong in my assumptions.

You can still set the depth of the LiveClay brush by the normal way of holding down the "Control Key" and right mouse button (vertical move of the mouse) I had without realizing it set my depth to "0"

Dud... :rofl::blink::D

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i cant open some older files with 3.7

and it frezes computer,have to switch off power.

ill wait for next build and hope it gets fixed

im on mac

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I just have to comment on how well "Interpolate" works now.This is a huge improvement.Thank you.

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Yeah i have noticed the dotting/stepped results with fast movements for a while now. It would be great if that could be improved as you need to work slow as you say to get good results, well at least on my computers anyway.

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There is still a few things like the stepping/dotted results, artifacts and jagged edges but once they are all gone i agree that 3DC will be one of the best tools available for sculpting.

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I finally figured out why my LiveClay brush was not adding or subtracting depth to the surface mesh in my Windows version of 3DCoat.

There is no depth selection setting for the LiveClay brush at the top of the menu like the other brushes. I had thought there was no way to change the depth of the brush while it was still in alpha / beta phase of development. I was wrong in my assumptions.

You can still set the depth of the LiveClay brush by the normal way of holding down the "Control Key" and right mouse button (vertical move of the mouse) I had without realizing it set my depth to "0"

Aha - cool Tip, many thanks for posting this!! This had been frustrating me as I'd just assume there was no depth setting for this tool.

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With lc there is a problem on linux os(tested with 2 different computer with Ubuntu 10.10 and Ubuntu 11.04).

When you use the lc brush(this doesn't seem to happen with voxel sculpting or others no lc surface brushes or with painting)using a Wacom tablet having enabled pressure for both radius and depth, when you start a stroke,no matter how much low pressure you use,the start of the stroke gives always the full radius(with even a depth applied),after the stroke works correctly(modulating correctly depth and radius).

Tried both on wacom intuos 3 and 4,it doesn't matter,here intuos 4 is a bit better but it has the same problem.

In this way you can't do details work because the start of the stroke is always visible(in every stroke you do you have always at the start a little sphere/circle big as your radius size).

Changing the Zero pressure radius in the brush settings doesn't help.

This doesn't happen on Vista 64 or Windows 7,here if you start a lc stroke with low pressure you have (right) low radius and low depth,it work correctly.

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With lc there is a problem on linux os(tested with 2 different computer with Ubuntu 10.10 and Ubuntu 11.04).

When you use the lc brush(this doesn't seem to happen with voxel sculpting or others no lc surface brushes or with painting)using a Wacom tablet having enabled pressure for both radius and depth, when you start a stroke,no matter how much low pressure you use,the start of the stroke gives always the full radius(with even a depth applied),after the stroke works correctly(modulating correctly depth and radius).

Tried both on wacom intuos 3 and 4,it doesn't matter,here intuos 4 is a bit better but it has the same problem.

In this way you can't do details work because the start of the stroke is always visible(in every stroke you do you have always at the start a little sphere/circle big as your radius size).

Changing the Zero pressure radius in the brush settings doesn't help.

This doesn't happen on Vista 64 or Windows 7,here if you start a lc stroke with low pressure you have (right) low radius and low depth,it work correctly.

Ah, I was wondering if I was alone with this issue with my Linux version. seems like I'm not...

I will post a bug report later about it...

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renderdemon i have this problem too, it's also noticeable in vxl mode.

one big dot on startpoint of the stroke.

btw the new build is really not bad, lots of things working better like the move tool in vxl and smoothing in paintroom without colormixing , well done! :)

but Live Clay looks still very early to me, but promising.

thin areas an espacially areas with low vxl resoltuion, getting bad tesselated as soon as you start with the lc brushes.

Lots of spikes and dots, you have to do a lot of cleanup before you can work over it again.

Deciamate feature didn't help much here.

Also the smoothing under LC in denser areas are not optimal it feels like you smoothing with a big scaled noise sometimes.

The surface gets wavy.

Projecting a Mesh from LC to paintroom is a problem if your mesh is not dense enough u get all the artifacts and lower polygonareas in the projection.

I'm no math expert, but would it be possible to subdivide the highpoly model internally without loosing your surfacedetails, so that you get a clean and smooth projection onto your retopo model.

Something like a smoothed normal projection.

This would be great for Displacement output later.

Also it seems that in paintroom the option "change texture and mesh resolution" under Microvertex mode does no longer work for me,

was this option cancelled?

Last but not least, a big wish a feature for an surface edit mode for your projected mesh.

For example, to been able to model the inside of the mouth for an character without loosing the current projected mesh and uv.

Maybe an extra feature for the retoporoom.

I know, many demands but if you get LC working that would be already very nice :).

regards

Markus

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About the dot at start of stroke bug under Linux, this was fixed a long time ago but it seems it didn't stick... I remember Sergey sending me a couple of different .exe's when I reported it and it was fixed there.

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Linux version 64 bit 3.7.01B

I posted a bug report on Mantis about the incorrect start of the brush stroke using LC brushes in the Linux version with Wacom tablets...

post-518-0-41148000-1323282708_thumb.jpg

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvT27ldTKkM

(720p recommended to see something ^^)

Yes and no (I could live with it if smoothing (shift) was affected by interpolate, but it's not. At high speed it's "dotting" and that's a problem when concepting something quick.)

It's shown using creaseclay for extra visibility, but it works will all brushes. It's not that bad, I could work slower, the issue is for some shapes, you need gesture, you need QUICK gestures. And you can't achieve that if your brushes make you work slow. Think of it as drawing with a pen and ink, the speed and intensity is critical in the render. (and now I sound like Michalis, but he's right sometimes wink.gif )

Agree +++

This is the main "problem" of 3D Coat in my eyes. There are some tricks to reduce the dotted style, but you can't avoid it completely. It is always there. And you are completely right: Artists are working fast, in a flow. So we need a smooth brush system. This is one of the main tasks when developing a tool like 3DC and THE 1st CONTRA argument against 3DC and the PRO argument for switching to zBrush or MudB.

I hope, we will see some more brush smootheness improvements in the future.

Best wishes

Chris

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Agree +++

This is the main "problem" of 3D Coat in my eyes. There are some tricks to reduce the dotted style, but you can't avoid it completely. It is always there. And you are completely right: Artists are working fast, in a flow. So we need a smooth brush system. This is one of the main tasks when developing a tool like 3DC and THE 1st CONTRA argument against 3DC and the PRO argument for switching to zBrush or MudB.

I hope, we will see some more brush smootheness improvements in the future.

Best wishes

Chris

Yes, I trying the new ZBrush and I have been surprized with the fluidity and fastness off the brushes.

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Yes, knowing that too, would be a nice extra for sculpting. :)

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Agreed on the dotting effect. It's not so much of a problem on polygon/voxel meshes where the resolution is low but the higher you get in voxel/polygon count it increasing gets worse...

We have for the move tool and pose tool a check mark for (Through all Volumes) so every layer is effected by them. Maybe a selection added so you could pick what layers you wanted effected by (Through all Volumes). It would be great to include it for all the brushes too... :good:

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Hi :)

I'm going back to brushing and LC stuffs so I can focus on the dotting effect as well ;)

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That is great news, and if anyone missed it there is some great new features on the way :D

"Finished recent Primitives upgrade/overhaul with Andrew ... now moving back to brushing, bugs and LC development ;)"

"Primitives updating finished to produce really good quality in surface bode booleans. Grid density may be varied by slider."

http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/down-to-primitives/

http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/lc-based-flatten-tool/

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3D-Coat Renderer

How about spicing up the renderer a bit? Visualization, direct voxel render output could be a good marketing for 3D-Coat. The DOF blur is nice and the final output render is good. How about fixing adding more lights, maybe HDR, repairing the color of lights to react like in 3DSMAX scanline render, replacing the current render code or add something that Andrew can think of?

1. First the 3000 frames render count code should be replaced with a completely new keyboard-listener:

Unlimited frames and a rigorous code that always stops a render and places the user back to render room. Of course the latest render state is saved in a PNG for example if a file target was selected.

2. Add some RIM-light type maybe so the outlines of a complex voxel model can be lit from behind in a 3-point - key, fill, rim - light setup? Look at movie posters and think of a plus new feature that could be coded into the renderer. It is not too bad if the new idea is unique and powerful that nobody has on the market currently. Such is 3D-Coat.

3. You could add a configurable motion blur effect like in Photoshop--filter--motion, where the voxel-object is rendered as if moving in a direction: think of the Enterprise Warp effect in Star Trek: motion-blur-streak intense colors are burned toward white

pic 1

pic 2

pic 3

4. Add a voxel-point-cloud maybe, that when rendered can get DOF blurred, looks like a cloud in the sky and can be lit with colored lights so we can create galactic gas-clouds or a voxel-model sculpture emerging from mist. The transparent blurred voxel cloud could be a new voxel spray brush, "particles" sprayed into space or a primitive cloud volume where you can set the particle density and make it deformable with warp. Snow could be created and rendered this way.

It has to be your idea, what plus could be added to the render room, just make it unique and fix the frame limit with a perfect and rewritten STOP RENDER keyboard listener.

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Poly-painting in voxel/surface mode is coming sometime in Version 4. We now have LC tools in development for local detail. The combination of both now only need a powerfull renderer to show off the work. I enjoy 2D painting as much if not more than the entire 3D pipeline. I could make illustrations using 3D elements but not have to go though the retopo process. Now I make a voxel/surface mode render then use a 2D paint program for compositing with color etc...

I can see alot of illustrators using 3DCoat for creating illustrations enlarging the customer base for 3DCoat.

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I think you guys are forgetting that 3DCoat is a Sculpting/Topology editor/Painting application, if you were to add too many other things, like photo quality rendering, animation etc the focus would be lost and we would end up with just another all round 3D program.

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I think you guys are forgetting that 3DCoat is a Sculpting/Topology editor/Painting application, if you were to add too many other things, like photo quality rendering, animation etc the focus would be lost and we would end up with just another all round 3D program.

I can see your point but adding a better renderer or plug-in (good idea) is not the same as losing focus in my view. 3DCoat has a renderer already, no reason not to upgrade it to meet the projected enhancements that 3DCoat will have in Version 4. Go to the Zbrush's site and many of those renders will never make it to a retopo process or game engine. They are for show and illustrations. I realise that Andrew and Raul are only two people but in time I do not think it's a bad idea to have more rendering power whether internal or external.

In the end the choice will be Andrews but good feedback and even disagreements help.

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Updated 3.7.02 - beta

Win build done. Mac + Liux - tomorrow if all is OK with win build.

- Free form primitives and pose tools got multi-selection and gizmo (if multiple elements selected) - http://bit.ly/tihLm7

- All retopo tools will support realtime symmetry updating. If you change something on one side of existing symmetry - it will be done on other side. Turn off "Retopo->Show mirrored" to see clearly how it happens. It is very important if you want to update existing mesh without breaking UV set.

- Primitives updating done to produce really good quality in surface mode booleans. Grid density may be varied by slider.

- Found one more lag in retopo tool (and UI in general). Now it will work faster, especially on undo/redo and tool switching.

- I found why importing model for ppp may take long time in some cases. It was realtime pading preparing routine. Now optimized a lot.

- airbrush in ppp & freeze issue solved - http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=447

- Pose, primitives & Free form with symmetry problem resolved - http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=441

- UV room "add clusters" bug fixed - http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=445

- UV mapping in retopo room improved - when you add polygons UV will be extended properly after switching other tool - http://www.3dcoat.com/files/UV_update.png

- Fixed bug - keeping scale of merged object in voxels was inaccurete up to 3%. It was well visible on far off-ce0ntered models.

- fixed cube lag: http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=435

- attempt to fix Linux delay bug, but really not sure there ...

LC updated just a little because of Raul was busy with primitives and ewest changes are not included - still not checked well.

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Some links in the update list are broken, Andrew.

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