3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread

[philnolan3d]

Right up until the last couple of builds the mac version was only a few days behind the PC version as far as I know.

[Taurus]

I can. Some fast 1M voxel sketch, some simple fast retopo, export to zbrush, finished. 200euros are too much for this, don't they?

Or export the cage from retopo and the tri from voxel room and turn them to a multi res model in blender. UV editor is superior there.

But an artist can work with what he has. I maybe a bad artist but I'm an artist after all

200 Euros is fine price for 3DC,I use it daily and it's worth every euro.Even if something doesn't work other tools are priceless, the only problem is speed of paint engine and some broken tools in paint mode which hopefully get fixed soon.

BTW Autoretopo is FREE feature which you didn't pay for.

I think you expect too much from 3DC UVs tool, they are for very basic things if you want some serious UVs 3DC is not app for making them, Blender has an army of free programmers uv editor is good but other things are not (curves,nurbs,poly modeling ...) Andrew for the guy with 4 small children is doing really good job I must admit

[Psmith]

Yeah, and Andrew will never quit - how much is that worth? Yeah, and Andrew is always pushing the edge with state of the art technology - before anyone else has even had a chance to think about it - how much is that worth? AUTOPO, PTEX, VOXELS, and who knows whats coming next, ADAPTIVE SUBDIVISION - who knows - what is that worth?

Greg Smith

[michalis]

Lets forget the 64bit version for mac.

My sarcasm AbnRanger... I have a lot of problems with this app, now Steven Jobs among them.

[Ghostdog]

I'm sick and tired of this update thread getting all this arguing and completely non-on-topic noise. Does anyone care that the update thread should be, well - about updates?

C'mon mods do your job, I'm visiting less and less now, surely this can't annoy just me?

Sorry this is a little harsh please forgive the heated nature, but the basic point still stands.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Ghostdog

[JimB]

I'm sick and tired of this update thread getting all this arguing and completely non-on-topic noise. Does anyone care that the update thread should be, well - about updates?

C'mon mods do your job, I'm visiting less and less now, surely this can't annoy just me?

Sorry this is a little harsh please forgive the heated nature, but the basic point still stands.

No Ghostdog you are not alone, I too do not like the arguing that goes on, Andrew has my sympathies as he tries really hard to keep everybody happy.

[michalis]

Does anyone care that the update thread should be, well - about updates?

Its not? Do you think I'm complaining for MY problems only?

I made it clear that I don't agree with new auto-retopo, waiting six months now for fixing topology and UV issues.

The only I got is, buy windows, or, wait the 64bit mac version. Or, you're doing something wrong in topo (Andrew wrote this).

IT IS ABOUT UPDATES.

Ghostdog and JimB, you don't realize what you are saying, you don't even care about mac users.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Thanks for response Andrew, I mailed you a mesh indeed. I could mail you all my previous meshes and ask you to re-topo them. On a mac. I can't find any use of posting the ready topology as I spent so many time to fix all these retopo and snapping problems. You have to do this, so to understand and start wondering "how he did this?" On a mac. Please explain why I can't edit islands in UVs. Why I have to do this in blender. Because blender is a better app maybe and blender 64bit mac builders don't seem to have any problems with Steven Jobs, they have a new build every day now. A cocoa build!

You didn't managed to give a clear answer once again. 32 or 64 bit, this mac version has lot of problems, it can work as a partner of zbrush only. To move 5k island, I don't need 64 bit for this.

The way you don't like dev tools, the same way I don't like voodoo ways in 3DC! LOL

I looked again our conversation. I asked you mesh with snapping problems. You answered:

OK Andrew, I wasn't just complaining all these days. I did some experiments and here what I understand.

I did a fast ultra low poly re-topo (100-200 faces). FIve min work.

After re- topo, I disabled symmetry. Then, and only then I subdivided the mesh (using the slower snapping mode). Everything OK this way, I did some smoothing and UVs. Then I baked the voxel. This way everything is perfect. Seams are not visible (n-maps in blender are rendering fine). I'm posting you the 3b file too, just try to do the same with symmetry on.

Some problems in UV editor, when more than 3-5k faces this is not working, its extremely heavy and slow but this is minor problem for me, I mostly use blender for UVs.

Yes, you sent me some file. But this file is free from this problem - at least from my read of your message. This has not helped at all. It is just impossible to work in so way. I am really want to fix it, you are sending me file with "all is ok". Please be constructive. Why are you are very often telling negative things about 3DC and not actually helping me to solve problem? It makes me really sad. Please read my answer on that pm

I experimented too and what I see the mainly problem can arise if polygon is really too distant from the surface (like inside the ear of your model if we will not subdivide it but merge it as is). Anyway as soon as you will see this happen again on your side just drop me the file and I will discover it deeply.

I spent several days to seek the issue and experiment, then asked your help, then got answer that has not helped at all. So I paused it until getting file with problem. And now you are telling that Andrew should fix it week ago. Really frustrating.

For all: If you have file that experiences problem with snapping/baking please send it to me to analyse. I need scene with retopo mesh and instructions how to reproduce problem.

And please let us continue discussion about this issue in PM.

And please, please be friendly to each other!

[splodge]

Andrew,

I think because you and Michalis aren't native english speakers there's a slight communication problem. I'm a native English speaker and I struggle to understand Michalis sometimes and so it must be even more difficult for you.

Michalis,

Perhaps you could get an English speaking friend to help translate your bug reports before sending them to Andrew?.

[haikalle]

Also if someone needs to make video about the bugs they are having you can always pm me and I will try to make video for Andrew.

Now I'm able to do it in win and linux systems. Not for macs yet. Maybe someday

It has been said many times before but it's true. Videos are so much faster to solve these bugs.

[michalis]

Now Andrew, this is not right and not faire.

At first its a PM and I should start showing to everybody what answers I had from time to time. I wont do this.

Second. You forgot to mention the updated response, that when I tried this trick to other meshes IT DIDN"T WORK.

I need a stable solution to work with all my sculpts. You fix a problem with one, it doesn't work with the other.

This conversation among other things came to an end.

Mac build at 32 bit definitely.

Me: I'm a bad guy and you are all satisfied.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Now Andrew, this is not right and not faire.

At first its a PM and I should start showing to everybody what answers I had from time to time. I wont do this.

Second. You forgot to mention the updated response, that when I tried this trick to other meshes IT DIDN"T WORK.

I need a stable solution to work with all my sculpts. You fix a problem with one, it doesn't work with the other.

This conversation among other things came to an end.

Mac build at 32 bit definitely.

Me: I'm a bad guy and you are all satisfied.

Please excuse me. Really. Maybe I written that under some emotions, so it looks like I am showing you to be a bad guy. You are not bad guy.

Maybe language barrier, maybe different method of thinking, I am math guy, you are an artist.

And I very want that every customer will be satisfied. Because if someone is unhappy then I am unhappy too. And especially if I offended someone.

The request to demonstrate problem well is still open and this fix is in the top of all my tasks.

[kay_Eva]

michalis you are being unfair with your complaints

you are using beta version of 3dCoat aren't you? Also, Andrew works very hard to satisfy all of his customers so I think you ought to communicate your issues with him in private because when I check this thread I want to see updates, not more of your complaining

you are not talking about updates, you need to go to the support section of the forum, not the main update thread

[AbnRanger]

Now Andrew, this is not right and not faire.

At first its a PM and I should start showing to everybody what answers I had from time to time. I wont do this.

Second. You forgot to mention the updated response, that when I tried this trick to other meshes IT DIDN"T WORK.

I need a stable solution to work with all my sculpts. You fix a problem with one, it doesn't work with the other.

This conversation among other things came to an end.

Mac build at 32 bit definitely.

Me: I'm a bad guy and you are all satisfied.

Because it appears you are trying harder to throw a fit for everyone to see than actually trying to work with the developer, one on one to get a remedy.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Oh, please stop discussing this conflict. I don't want that Michalis will feel itself offended.

I just want to get peace back on this place.

Let us get back to technical questions.

[Digital777]

Maybe your current paint color is black? And you are using "Default" shader in Voxel room...

I have had this recently, i know how to make it appear correctly however i was thinking it would be better to default to another color where it would show correctly or at least in voxel mode etc. On a similar note though all my shaders now preview broken (not in scene, on the side bar), i have tried colors, lighting settings etc but after updating all previews nothing fixes it. I posted about this here -

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6259&pid=47340&st=0entry47340

Btw - Was the forum down yesterday? for some reason it would not load for me, good to see things working again though

[stevecullum]

Let us get back to technical questions.

Good call - I have one...

I like sculpting on multiple layers - foot on one, leg on another, arm etc... then merge them together at the end. Right it seems I have to merge a layer at a time - is it possible to do multiple layer merging? I also note there was a clone and degrade option, which has proved useful - but I'm wondering if its possible to do that with the current layer rather than cloning.

Thanks...

[artman]

Good call - I have one...

I like sculpting on multiple layers - foot on one, leg on another, arm etc... then merge them together at the end. Right it seems I have to merge a layer at a time - is it possible to do multiple layer merging? I also note there was a clone and degrade option, which has proved useful - but I'm wondering if its possible to do that with the current layer rather than cloning.

Thanks...

Yes you can!

Using "Combine with Children" function from voxtree menu.

But you must make your layers children of an empty voxel layer that has good enough space density.

So its best to create the parent layer beforehand(when starting project) otherwise changing the parenting for each layer is gonna be as long as using "move to" for each.

[stevecullum]

Yes you can!

Using "Combine with Children" function from voxtree menu.

But you must make your layers children of an empty voxel layer that has good enough space density.

Ah - must have missed this option - thanks.

[stevecullum]

Another one....

Can I clone a layer and have any children automatically clone with it?

[artman]

Another one....

Can I clone a layer and have any children automatically clone with it?

No...and that would be damn cool.

I also requested to be able to save branches as .3b file(we can presently import but not export them)

....but Im not the only one requesting stuff here + Andrew has a thousand tasks on his plate.

At least you can delete a parent and it deletes all children...so thats a start.

Anyway,i clearly remember when there was no voxtree so Im not gonna whine too much about this.

[stevecullum]

No...and that would be damn cool.

I also requested to be able to save branches as .3b file(we can presently import but not export them)

....but Im not the only one requesting stuff here + Andrew has a thousand tasks on his plate.

At least you can delete a parent and it deletes all children...so thats a start.

Anyway,i clearly remember when there was no voxtree so Im not gonna whine too much about this.

Ok no worries. I think small workflow enhancement like this would be worth Andrew's effort if its not too much trouble to add. But like you said, I'm just grateful for a voxtree, so I'll make do and let him get on with the solving exisiting issues...

[Andrew Shpagin]

Updated to 3.3.11 (Win+Mac, Linux-soon):

- I improved following guides-strokes in auto-retopo. 3DC will follow guides much better.

- UV room got correct support of non-square UV maps

- Microvertex/ptex painting got several bugfixes -

- the problem with smoothed edges when mesh is loaded on lowest subd level solved. Also edges will not be distorted when resolution is low.

- Change resolution works correctly on open meshes

- painting with strokes will distort surface imediately (not when stroke ended)

- fixed bug in retopo room when it was impossible to drop invisible layer to the trash can.

- I improved ptex export/import because it starts to be used in other software more and more. Ptex export/import will work much faster, mipmaps are supported too. Also I made support of export/import ptex vector displacement. You may export absolute positions too. It opens good way to interoperate with Mudbox because it supports ptex vector displacement. I hope ZBrush will get ptex support too, then interoperation between MB & ZB & 3DC will be absolutely smooth and easy.

Edit:

WARNING: Use smoothing value 2 or 3 in Auto retopo dialog instead of default 0 to get better results. I will correct default value in the next build.

[AbnRanger]

Updated to 3.3.11 (Win+Mac, Linux-soon):

- I improved following guides-strokes in auto-retopo. 3DC will follow guides much better.

- UV room got correct support of non-square UV maps

- Microvertex/ptex painting got several bugfixes -

- the problem with smoothed edges when mesh is loaded on lowest subd level solved. Also edges will not be distorted when resolution is low.

- Change resolution works correctly on open meshes

- painting with strokes will distort surface imediately (not when stroke ended)

- fixed bug in retopo room when it was impossible to drop invisible layer to the trash can.

- I improved ptex export/import because it starts to be used in other software more and more. Ptex export/import will work much faster, mipmaps are supported too. Also I made support of export/import ptex vector displacement. You may export absolute positions too. It opens good way to interoperate with Mudbox because it supports ptex vector displacement. I hope ZBrush will get ptex support too, then interoperation between MB & ZB & 3DC will be absolutely smooth and easy.

Thanks Andrew.

By the way, the download speed is slow as a snail (15-20kbps). I did a download test to make sure it wasn't on my end, and got 18mbps...so it's got to be on the server side. It's showing that it will take roughly and hour and 20 minutes to complete the download. That's worse than dial-up slow.

[philnolan3d]

I love the update to the depth strokes. Just one quick note though that enabling sub-patching causes it to switch back to the old method.

Edit: Hey Don, I didn't notice anything strange about the DL speed. Maybe it's just a server glitch right when you downloaded or something.

[haikalle]

The strokes follow so much better in auto-retopoly. Good job. I just wish that I could use "draw with lines" when I'm creating those strokes. Also if I want to continue stroke already there it dosen't allow me to do it. It does allow to end my stroke with old one but not to start with. I think that it would be better to put feature "move strokes point" under the shift button and "continue stroke" as a default. But anyway this great update again. Now I'm off to test Ptex in houdini.

[artman]

Great Andrew ...it seems Displacement export to Mudbox works very good now.

Exporting took not even 1 minute!

I used Ptex merging and 32 bit disp map export Low-Poly with new Coarse option,"Pick positions from layer 0" and "Zero level is black ,not normalised".

Low poly is only 20k.

(To people:I merged to Ptex but didnt use the PTEX file format import in MB.Ptex support in MB is not out yet .

The .obj has UVs...its the special filtered tiled Uvs 3DCoat provides on export for models that were merge to Ptex.

It is the reason I merged to Ptex.Those Uvs are much better than automapping you get when using Microvertex.And they are also automatic... )

[AbnRanger]

The strokes follow so much better in auto-retopoly. Good job. I just wish that I could use "draw with lines" when I'm creating those strokes. Also if I want to continue stroke already there it dosen't allow me to do it. It does allow to end my stroke with old one but not to start with. I think that it would be better to put feature "move strokes point" under the shift button and "continue stroke" as a default. But anyway this great update again. Now I'm off to test Ptex in houdini.

You can make a straight line with the strokes tool by clicking, then holding the SHIFT key while you drag the cursor. Also, it's no sweat to join the lines after you've made them. Just drag one point on top of the other (between dis-joined lines).

EDIT: Phil, I tried it again, and it's still slower than dial-up....at about 20-30kbps. With a download test of 18+mbps, it has to be low bandwith on the server side.

[splodge]

Quadrangulating a default voxel cube is producing very strange topology on two sides.

But thankfully I can override it by using the nice strokes feature!

[haikalle]

You can make a straight line with the strokes tool by clicking, then holding the SHIFT key while you drag the cursor. Also, it's no sweat to join the lines after you've made them. Just drag one point on top of the other (between dis-joined lines).

Thanks AbnRanger. It's a very good feature but it only helps you if you need angle 0,45,90 etc... but degrees between them are the problems.

In my tests. If you are doing hard surface you need to create very clean strokes. Also joining the curves it's okey but for example if "paint with lines" would work that would be time saver and would help to create nice sharp corners too. But these are very small ideas and concerns. There is much to play with right now.