Carlosan Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv OpenSubdiv Overview OpenSubdiv is a set of open source libraries that implement high performance subdivision surface (subdiv) evaluation on massively parallel CPU and GPU architectures. This codepath is optimized for drawing deforming subdivs with static topology at interactive framerates. The resulting limit surface matches Pixar’s Renderman to numerical precision. OpenSubdiv is covered by the Microsoft Public License, and is free to use for commercial or non-commercial use. This is the same code that Pixar uses internally for animated film production. Our intent is to encourage high performance accurate subdiv drawing by giving away the “good stuff”. The source code for OpenSubdiv is located on github and is entering open beta for SIGGRAPH 2012. Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github site. https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/OpenSubdiv Platforms supported: Windows, Linux, limited OSX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 13, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv OpenSubdiv Overview OpenSubdiv is a set of open source libraries that implement high performance subdivision surface (subdiv) evaluation on massively parallel CPU and GPU architectures. This codepath is optimized for drawing deforming subdivs with static topology at interactive framerates. The resulting limit surface matches Pixar’s Renderman to numerical precision. OpenSubdiv is covered by the Microsoft Public License, and is free to use for commercial or non-commercial use. This is the same code that Pixar uses internally for animated film production. Our intent is to encourage high performance accurate subdiv drawing by giving away the “good stuff”. The source code for OpenSubdiv is located on github and is entering open beta for SIGGRAPH 2012. Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github site. https://github.com/P...dios/OpenSubdiv Platforms supported: Windows, Linux, limited OSX. Just watched the presentation, and it looks very promising. They have support for CUDA and OpenCL, so this might be a good answer to switch gears in 3DC's sculpting development, and using this Open SubDiv technology, port all of the tools in the Voxel Room to the Tweak Room (I would rename it PolySculpt Room). This way you have two really good options within the application...the flexibility of Voxel Sculpting and/or SubD sculpting (as you have in Mudbox).I hope Andrew takes a look at this...could really change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 hey ! i like the idea !!! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted August 13, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 SubD Sculpting would be a very welcome addition, and a good move to make 3DC more attractive to those that are more comfortable with multi-res poly sculpting. And there have been times that I wish I could just sculpt on a base mesh without having to convert it to voxel\surfaces. Polysculpt could combine vertex painting (transferable from voxel sculpt), uv painting (ppp), and scupting. +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DavidF Posted August 13, 2012 Member Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalSan Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 +5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 This is something for the very far future of 3D Coat in my opinion... Nice for the traditional modeler software solutions, but 3D Coat is still a sculpting, retopo and painting software for me - and it should stay this as long as the current functionality is not finally polished... there are still too mutch building sites in 3D Coat... But very interesting indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 14, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 This is something for the very far future of 3D Coat in my opinion... Nice for the traditional modeler software solutions, but 3D Coat is still a sculpting, retopo and painting software for me - and it should stay this as long as the current functionality is not finally polished... there are still too mutch building sites in 3D Coat... But very interesting indeed. Well, I'm guessing you missed the part in the video where SCULPTING was mentioned. The code is already laid out and there is CUDA and OpenCL support built in, so it may be a much easier task to boost the sculpting performance by utilizing it and mirror the tools from Surface Mode. It's also easier to add true sculpt layers, that can blend (Intensity) and have masks. VoxTree Layer Panel is really just an outliner panel of the objects in the Voxel Room. Both Mudbox and ZBrush offer sculpt layers PER OBJECT. 3D Coat does not. That and the performance limitations that still exist in 3DC, prevent many of those artists from seriously considering it in their pipeline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalSan Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Well, I'm guessing you missed the part in the video where SCULPTING was mentioned. The code is already laid out and there is CUDA and OpenCL support built in, so it may be a much easier task to boost the sculpting performance by utilizing it and mirror the tools from Surface Mode. It's also easier to add true sculpt layers, that can blend (Intensity) and have masks. VoxTree Layer Panel is really just an outliner panel of the objects in the Voxel Room. Both Mudbox and ZBrush offer sculpt layers PER OBJECT. 3D Coat does not. That and the performance limitations that still exist in 3DC, prevent many of those artists from seriously considering it in their pipeline. It's very right words, Don. I join once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 14, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 +1 of course. You may remember how many times I wished for multi resolution mode and mirroring of sculpting tools into sculpt room. Sculpt more after retopology, this is the mesh what should be used for baking. This was and still is the weak point of 3dcoat. This was always the zbrush-MB way. Zbrush did a lot more but now we have a new technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Well, I'm guessing you missed the part in the video where SCULPTING was mentioned. The code is already laid out and there is CUDA and OpenCL support built in, so it may be a much easier task to boost the sculpting performance by utilizing it and mirror the tools from Surface Mode. It's also easier to add true sculpt layers, that can blend (Intensity) and have masks. VoxTree Layer Panel is really just an outliner panel of the objects in the Voxel Room. Both Mudbox and ZBrush offer sculpt layers PER OBJECT. 3D Coat does not. That and the performance limitations that still exist in 3DC, prevent many of those artists from seriously considering it in their pipeline. Yes, I missed that. Sorry. Let's see. As I see, the 3DC engine should be rewritten in the case of using this new tech. I can't await reporting new bugs for already working functions ... Ok ok - joking aside. It is really nice what pixar published there. I love the idea too. Let us surprise what will find a way into 3DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 14, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Let's see. As I see, the 3DC engine should be rewritten in the case of using this new tech. I can't await reporting new bugs for already working functions ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yep. Fix bugs and streamline the workflow before adding yet more features that need more time for bug fixes. This all sounds nice and dandy, but to paraphrase Don, I'm tired of having to work around the software to do what it should when it should work as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 14, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'm all for keeping things stable, but as you know already....if you want to make a good omelet, you got to break a few eggs. Anything that can be done to improve performance (still a glaring issue in certain cases), will introduce some new bugs. I'm not advocating a new feature as much as I am for filling a missing void and boost overall sculpting performance....especially when an industry giant has already done the bulk of the code work for it. Almost like having the Mudbox developers offering their codebase to any interested vendors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 14, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'm all for keeping things stable, but as you know already....if you want to make a good omelet, you got to break a few eggs. Anything that can be done to improve performance (still a glaring issue in certain cases), will introduce some new bugs. I'm not advocating a new feature as much as I am for filling a missing void and boost overall sculpting performance....especially when an industry giant has already done the bulk of the code work for it. Almost like having the Mudbox developers offering their codebase to any interested vendors. I agree, BUT you're just offering an easy way out: adding more features to not go into bug fixing. At some point freezing the code base and polishing things is unavoidable. The more you keep adding features, the harder it will get to fix the accumulated bugs... Just saying and I actually REALLY want a multiresolution sculpting ability (as I really think this is the best for solid bases) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 14, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 You know Andrew is not going to freeze feature additions for long...no matter what we wish for. And performance with large brushes has been so dismal for so long, I'll take the horsepower however I can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member johnnycore Posted August 15, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 +1!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Well the good news is that Raul is going to be in Kiev soon. So I'm sure, or rather hope, he'll do some bug squashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member johnnycore Posted August 15, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Great news! (not for the bugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chingchong Posted August 16, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well the good news is that Raul is going to be in Kiev soon. Is this official? Cause that sounds like a running gag to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 18, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Is this official? Cause that sounds like a running gag to me. Pretty much. Stas said he just got his Visa the other day and is supposed to be in Kiev Sept 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Is this official? Cause that sounds like a running gag to me. I hear that. It's been forever, the paperwork for him to get to Kiev is rather lengthy and terrible as I understand it. The beauracracy... Seems no "modern" country is exempt from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted May 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 OpenSubdiv is a set of open source libraries that implement high-performance subdivision surface (subdiv) evaluation on massively parallel CPU and GPU architectures. The code embodies decades of research and experience by Pixar. Very interesting to see how they are using PTEX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 OpenSubdiv instead:allows full threading, including use of GPUcreates and draws subsurfed “on the fly”, so you don’t need to generate/store datahas excellent crease supporthas adaptive (screen space) subdivisionsupports Ptex natively (non UV texture mapping) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 15, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 b3d_OpenSubDiv2.0.jpg OpenSubdiv instead: allows full threading, including use of GPU creates and draws subsurfed “on the fly”, so you don’t need to generate/store data has excellent crease support has adaptive (screen space) subdivision supports Ptex natively (non UV texture mapping) Sweet. Raul is supposed to come back in August (next month), and when he does, I'll ask him if he can explore/research this a little bit. I think they want him to also explore a NURBS toolset that would be available in a different version of 3D Coat....probably called 3D Coat Industrial. Having a focus on NURBS shells in the retopo room for export to Manufacturer/CNC lathing formats like STEP, IGES and CATIA. So, he might already have too much on his plate to look into this OpenSubdiv. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted July 16, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Sweet. Raul is supposed to come back in August (next month), and when he does, I'll ask him if he can explore/research this a little bit. I think they want him to also explore a NURBS toolset that would be available in a different version of 3D Coat....probably called 3D Coat Industrial. Having a focus on NURBS shells in the retopo room for export to Manufacturer/CNC lathing formats like STEP, IGES and CATIA. So, he might already have too much on his plate to look into this OpenSubdiv. This is amazing news. I've been saying in other threads that Andrew (and now Raoul) should take on Geomagic and their multidisciplinary approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFIfP1UMPEk It's a NURBS/BREP/Polygon/SubD/Voxel approach where you constantly transform the medium your object is being worked on with in one window, back and forth depending on your creative needs at the moment. It's all built around using splines and NURBS to give toplogy to point cloud meshes which are already very close to Voxels. This produces parametric solids which are mathematical/geometric in nature. This allows for precise mathematical manipulation of objects with addition of holes, chamfers and bevels and shells etc. Once the precise substrate is established with a robust history/dependency graph for later alterations or permutations, you could then turn it to voxel or subd mode for organic sculpts of details. Geomagic is $20k If Andrew could walk in and deliver an add on package for 3d coat for an affordable price he could totally steal this market from other programs like Rapidform XOR etc. And there's other things too; working in Catia or Spaceclaim or NX8 allows for some simple texturing but it's not set up for really intensely detailed painting like you can do in Mari or Mudbox or 3d coat. By allowing us to do NURBS/Brep in a 3d coat environment Andrew will be opening up a whole new market for intense texture painting of NURBS BREP surfaces that doesn't really exist yet. After all what happens to NURBS BREP surfaces in the render engine? They get converted to smoothed polys anyway. .. Edited July 16, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted July 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Hopefully it'll be a full reverse engineering toolset; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEGs0P6LlUM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-oltNawjUA Note how Geomagic uses Sensable, a voxel modeling system that predated Zbrush by about 5 years and then allows subD or NURBS or BREP workflows all integrated into one workspace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-yRmw05ris Edited July 17, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted July 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Looking into Nurbs again sounds great. I'm not so sure if it was good to break this into an entirely different version though - unless one planned also larger changes in the Software architecture. More standalone versions would make stuff only harder to maintain, which could be tough with such a small team. Maybe a Nurbs toolset rather could be added as commercial AddOn module - as one would need all of 3DCoat's standard tools anyway. A entirely separate version, showcased in Product Development Scenarios rather than in Game-Design contexts was of course more suitable to communicate that one now quite seriously targets a different market. Edited July 17, 2013 by polyxo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 17, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Looking into Nurbs again sounds great. I'm not so sure if it was good to break this into an entirely different version though - unless one planned also larger changes in the Software architecture. More standalone versions would make stuff only harder to maintain, which could be tough with such a small team. Maybe a Nurbs toolset rather could be added as commercial AddOn module - as one would need all of 3DCoat's standard tools anyway. A entirely separate version, showcased in Product Development Scenarios rather than in Game-Design contexts was of course more suitable to communicate that one now quite seriously targets a different market. I told Stas that getting with MOI to create a plugin module, integrated in a 3D Coat Industrial version or a separate module, might be a better approach than hiring a single developer from the Blender community or elsewhere. nPower sells a very powerful NURBS/Solid Surface plugin for 3ds Max and something that could make a BIG splash in 3D Coat is if they could arrange to get nPower to port their SubD to NURBS conversion. Kind of an Auto-Retopo for NURBS. http://www.npowersoftware.com/NewPowerSubDNURBS.html http://www.npowersoftware.com/NewPowerNURBS.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted July 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) The maker of MoI is a single guy, I doubt he had the time for getting involved deeply. Integrating (=licensing) Npower stuff would cost a lot (one can see this in their products for Modo). I actually believe this all 3rd party bells and whistles weren't required, for an initial release. Most important imo was gaining a profound understanding of what actually helps people with manufacturing demands the most. Automatic Mesh/Voxel to Nurbs conversions for instance are spectacular but one likely runs into somewhat comparable issues as with Autopo. As much as spiral loops on meshes are unusable, a curvature continous but awkwardly patched and bumpy Nurbs polysurface may not be useful output at all. This is not to say one should generally leave fingers from this challenge... I only consider it a seriously huge problem, which thus far has not been solved in a convincing way by any Software maker. Imo there were areas which required far less research and still were highly useful - for instance an accurate initial Voxel conversion based on the underlying Nurbs model and not as currently required - it's render-mesh. Autopo of Nurbs which takes Nurbs surface seams as input (retopo)curves and reprojection after some Catmull Clark subdivisions against the initial Nurbs model. This allowed for Nurbs conversion outside of 3DCoat, with Tsplines for instance. More refined curve based Geometry editing tools and quick import of externally created curves and surfaces helped too. Edited July 17, 2013 by polyxo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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