3D-Coat 3.0 ALPHA

[BluEgo]

check out the flex tool for MODO

http://www.luxology.com/whatismodo/model.aspx

The realtime update when the falloff is changed, and the end, is ace.

Argh, I already posted this previously, but people seems to prefer new handles

Anyway, the current transpose tool is not so bad, right ?

Andrew, even if I was not offended by previous zb image with stretched polygons, I am very glad you hear at the right Alexis's request, you are a gentleman

[Andrew Shpagin]

Talking about painting, do you plan to do something like the PTex? It is really elegant and allow to have really huge resolution texture.

This in conjunction with you Baking Texture tool could be really powerful, that's like a polypainting but much more powerful, and Mesh resolution independant.

And like that you will be prepare when PTex will be massively used after they did it with Bilbo The Hobbit. :lol:

It is funny, but current 3DC's approach of painting is per face mapping exactly as it shown on the left picture. I will discover this technology more (look videos), but from the first glance it looks like current per face subdivision in 3DC.

Every face in 3DC is a bitmap NxM in dependence on face dimensions. All faces are mapped independently.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Congrats with page 100!

[splodge]

Just tested the latest version. Nice stuff!

I agree with some of the earlier posters in that 3D Coat needs lots of polishing now. I worry Andrew may be overstretching himself with so many different versions of 3D Coat. When an application splits into multiple version then it often results in the coder become overwhelmed and demoralized. So stay focused, Andrew! Maybe create Cuda and 64 Bit versions after your first official release of 3D Coat 3.0?.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but here are some suggestions for overall design and workflow:

Step 1:

Use voxel mode to create object.

Step 2:

Use "To Polygons" to create an efficient mesh with a UV map. Automatic UV creation should be optional so that the more advanced users can use the retopo tool.

Step 3:

Use image based painting mode for painting directly onto object's texture map and bump maps (similar to Mudbox and Bodypaint etc)

Optional step 4:

Automatically generate several different versions of object with varying levels of detail. These will be used for LOD changes in game engines and for creation of a normal map.

Step 5:

Export model and smile..

So that's my ideal 3D Coat.

I think the success of 3D Coat is ultimately going to depend on the power of the "To Polygons" function to create an efficient mesh. Because as a creator of models for game engines I would much rather create a mesh with the correct topology from the start, rather than having to recreate a new mesh using retopology tools.

[Ghostdog]

Step 1:

Use voxel mode to create object.

[sNIP]

Step 5:

Export model and smile..

So that's my ideal 3D Coat.

I think the success of 3D Coat is ultimately going to depend on the power of the "To Polygons" function to create an efficient mesh. Because as a creator of models for game engines I would much rather create a mesh with the correct topology from the start, rather than having to recreate a new mesh using retopology tools.

For what its worth I am in complete agreement with this post. Well put.

[GED]

I think the success of 3D Coat is ultimately going to depend on the power of the "To Polygons" function to create an efficient mesh. Because as a creator of models for game engines I would much rather create a mesh with the correct topology from the start, rather than having to recreate a new mesh using retopology tools.

I dont see this happening, Ive never seen an automatically generated mesh with anything close to perfectly useful topology for animation or games. Thats the whole reason retopology is so very important, the machine just isnt capable of deciding where eyes are, where legs will bend where shoulder edge loops will flow etc etc, that takes a human touch. Retopology is also necessary in order to get a good uvmap, so texture painting also relys on this human effort otherwise the texture looks a mess of disjointed polygons in photoshop. 3D coat is amazing but I think its very very unlikely that 3D coat could simplify the workflow that much...although we do wish that was possible.

What I do imagine possible is having a low poly automatically generated but then having to do some minor reconstruction/retopology on the mesh to get it game/animation ready, make uvs, then baking normal map and occlusion and painting texture and its done.

[Mantis]

Yes you're right GED, that's a major issue because it's common to use premade object with Uvs and Topology done, for Game and Film.

I think there is a way to do this by reprojecting an existing mesh on a new mesh who is basicly the same shape.

Cyslice do this already and allow you to tweak vertices position to fit better your mesh flow.

Yesterday I found a paper on the web who is exactly about this, and seems totally automated, I think that's what use Cyslice because it does an automatic mesh alignment and then you can tweak it to help this automatic operation.

Here is the link of the paper http://www.geometry.caltech.edu/pubs/EPTKD07.pdf

But that's not the current stage of development, just wanted to share it with you.

Andrew: So you are already ready for PTex, really funny to discover that you were using this kind of technology.

[splodge]

I dont see this happening, Ive never seen an automatically generated mesh with anything close to perfectly useful topology for animation or games. Thats the whole reason retopology is so very important, the machine just isnt capable of deciding where eyes are, where legs will bend where shoulder edge loops will flow etc etc, that takes a human touch. Retopology is also necessary in order to get a good uvmap, so texture painting also relys on this human effort otherwise the texture looks a mess of disjointed polygons in photoshop. 3D coat is amazing but I think its very very unlikely that 3D coat could simplify the workflow that much...although we do wish that was possible.

What I do imagine possible is having a low poly automatically generated but then having to do some minor reconstruction/retopology on the mesh to get it game/animation ready, make uvs, then baking normal map and occlusion and painting texture and its done.

Yeah, I can see that it isn't going to be easy to do. I'm aware of the animation related issues. But for static models I think it may be possible to create an efficient mesh, but obviously - it's never gonna match anything a human could do.

and as for textures looking messy in Photoshop - I don't think everybody wishes to take their textures into Photoshop. The only time I've taken a texture into Photoshop is to simply resize it.

[philnolan3d]

Congrats with page 100!

I was just thinking the same thing. Nice to see so many great updates and constructive comments!

[GED]

Yeah, I can see that it isn't going to be easy to do. I'm aware of the animation related issues. But for static models I think it may be possible to create an efficient mesh, but obviously - it's never gonna match anything a human could do.

and as for textures looking messy in Photoshop - I don't think everybody wishes to take their textures into Photoshop. The only time I've taken a texture into Photoshop is to simply resize it.

I agree it may be possible for some static objects to use a generated mesh but I imagine alot of people are going to want to use sculpting or voxel sculpting for organics or moving creatures and do hard surfaces in other 3D apps so I really think good retopology is going to be important to nearly everyone using 3D coat for production.

I didnt mean to imply that you would actually use photoshop to make your texture but thats still no excuse for a messy automatically generated UVmap. Look at uvmaps from any computer game character from an AAA rated game and it will be beautifully clean and well structured even in photoshop. Check out the models in dominance war 3, every single one has great UV maps and textures look excellent as flats

http://www.gameartisans.org/dominancewar/index.php

and heres a great character with really nicely painted textures

http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/event...nals_1_926.html

For many people this is the goal to aim towards and if 3D coat cannot deliver that result then they will have to use other applications in their work flow in order to achieve that goal. Having clean structured uvs means that you get a cleaner neater normal map, you can easily tweak the texture or replace parts of the texture in photoshop/alternative, you have seams in the right places so they dont effect the normal map too much or become obvious. You can also use programs like crazybump to add detail to your normal maps eg add clothing stitching etc but you cant do this without neat looking textures.

3D coat really does has some nice uv tools and retopology tools and Im looking forward to playing with them more. Maybe one day we will have automatically generated uvmaps or semi automatically generated uvmaps which can rival manually unwrapping but nothing even comes close as far as I can see.

[tree321]

How 'bout 101

[polyxo]

A question about points cloud. Maybe I missed something. I see that PLY files are used in most cases. It is very easy to make PLY codec. But I need to know - is there only points, or there are triangles also?

Hello Andrew,

to me it seems that there are actually quite a few more point cloud file formats around, mostly text based (txt, csv, xyz, cgo, ascii, asci...)

However - each quality 3D-scanner I have seen yet uses meshes too.

First off for screen display: The user usually gets a direct visual feedback by the processing software shipped with the scanner.

This way one can inspect the result: Is there still some holes - do I have to increase resolution - is my object "readable" at all?

This would not work with just myriads of points on a computer screen.

3D-Scanners then typically convert the lowRes preview mesh to a Hi Res mesh by processing the complete input measurements.

The Software offer powerful options to smooth the result, to remesh adaptively and to fill holes and gaps with patches which match the

curvature.

While it is certainly possible to output as point-clouds many users will prefer saving the files out as meshes.

These are always triangulated, they may adapt to geometry-complexity but they are never optimized in terms of 3D computergraphics of the entertainment sector.

Typically they are getting reverse-engineered (Retopo with Nurbs-Surfaces).

Although as mentioned scan-processing software is powerful, typical mistakes are holes and double layers of faces. The second phenomen occurs as most scanned

objects has to get turned around in order to capture the complete geometry. When merging these measurements back to a single mesh things go wrong sometimes.

Holger

[philnolan3d]

Just a side note here, if anyone is interested there is a DIY 3D scanner system you can build yourself for around $25USD. The software is free but there's a pay version.

http://www.david-laserscanner.com/

They showed how to do it on a recent episode of SYSTM:

http://revision3.com/systm/laserscan/

[Andrew Shpagin]

Hello Andrew,

to me it seems that there are actually quite a few more point cloud file formats around, mostly text based (txt, csv, xyz, cgo, ascii, asci...)

However - each quality 3D-scanner I have seen yet uses meshes too.

First off for screen display: The user usually gets a direct visual feedback by the processing software shipped with the scanner.

This way one can inspect the result: Is there still some holes - do I have to increase resolution - is my object "readable" at all?

This would not work with just myriads of points on a computer screen.

3D-Scanners then typically convert the lowRes preview mesh to a Hi Res mesh by processing the complete input measurements.

The Software offer powerful options to smooth the result, to remesh adaptively and to fill holes and gaps with patches which match the

curvature.

While it is certainly possible to output as point-clouds many users will prefer saving the files out as meshes.

These are always triangulated, they may adapt to geometry-complexity but they are never optimized in terms of 3D computergraphics of the entertainment sector.

Typically they are getting reverse-engineered (Retopo with Nurbs-Surfaces).

Although as mentioned scan-processing software is powerful, typical mistakes are holes and double layers of faces. The second phenomen occurs as most scanned

objects has to get turned around in order to capture the complete geometry. When merging these measurements back to a single mesh things go wrong sometimes.

Holger

I have made PLY/STL support. Is it enough for that purpose?

[THARSO]

I agree with complaint. I placed picture because I had no other (I have no ZB license). Left part is really ugly. So someone, please help me and make in ZB picture (not so ugly) with idea - sphere+extruded tubes that show that extrusion produces stretched polygones. It is even better to make obj and attach it. I will show it in wireframe.

I will replace picture asap.

There is NOTHING like life with JESUS.

[philnolan3d]

There is NOTHING like life with JESUS.

Be that true or not, I don't think it's really relevant.

[Crusoe]

Yay! STL Support!

And YAY!, Quadranglization!

[THARSO]

Be that true or not, I don't think it's really relevant.

relevant. Andrew is worshiper, 3DCoat is Andrew. I believe Jesus helps his works. Please, do not mix religion with Jesus(2009-Christimas-our history) and His words, but u can mix 3DCoat with Jesus, I think. There is no argue in it post just who we are.

Peace

[tree321]

relevant. Andrew is worshiper, 3DCoat is Andrew. I believe Jesus helps his works. Please, do not mix religion with Jesus(2009-Christimas-our history) and His words, but u can mix 3DCoat with Jesus, I think. There is no argue in it post just who we are.

Peace

Agree!

[Crusoe]

There are plenty of excellent atheist/agnostic/hindi/etc software developers too...

[polyxo]

I have made PLY/STL support. Is it enough for that purpose?

Yes, that is great

[cyartist]

I know you love it

But back to reality - this feature can't be add before release - too time consuming. Of all time consuming tasks I will choose quadrangulation because it will open straight way to painting.

Back to reality? There is no reality but the one you create. And you are doing a great job recreating reality with Voxels.

Voxels is something I dreamed a 3d package would had years ago. And Andrew you made it so.

I hope you do realize how important this feature is and would rock.

Zbrush has transpose already.The more blow them away features 3d coat has the better.

Do it for 3D coat 3.5 version.

With the mentioned rigging solution pre made models could be brought in reposed and finely sculpted via voxels.

Imaging if you do that in 3D coat!

3D Coat would then fully sprint ahead of the other 3d packages.

[Ghostdog]

Just a side note here, if anyone is interested there is a DIY 3D scanner system you can build yourself for around $25USD. The software is free but there's a pay version.

http://www.david-laserscanner.com/

They showed how to do it on a recent episode of SYSTM:

http://revision3.com/systm/laserscan/

Phil that looks pretty darn clever hey. Nice find!

[geo_n]

I'm now dual booting with winxp32 and winvista 64. Not sure if its hardware related but Cuda never worked with winxp. Cuda works in winvista 64. Its not faster at all with my quadcore.

I dont know but Cuda seems to be a hit and miss. Some people who dont own 3dcoat yet might be put off if the Cuda feature didn't work in their system since this is a highly publicized feature. Its time to focus and make 3dcoat less buggy and stable.

[kay_Eva]

Hey andrew you're doing a great job, I'm thinking seriously of purchasing =)

I see u get a lot of comments from people about what you should do, but just do what you feel is best everybody has got an opinion but out of all of us here I think you are by far the most qualified to say what's what about 3d coat

[philnolan3d]

I see u get a lot of comments from people about what you should do, but just do what you feel is best everybody has got an opinion but out of all of us here I think you are by far the most qualified to say what's what about 3d coat

I agree Andrew is very good at what he does, but I think he likes these comments. Without them it might, as he himself put it, become a program for programers, not for artists.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I agree Andrew is very good at what he does, but I think he likes these comments. Without them it might, as he himself put it, become a program for programers, not for artists.

Really, agree, comments help me. Now I am not able to answer any reply but I read everything and make direction correction.

[tree321]

Really, agree, comments help me. Now I am not able to answer any reply but I read everything and make direction correction.

Andrew I sent vid to support@3d-coat.com

[GED]

been using the simple 44 release and it seems good, not getting any undo crashes anymore, using multiple layers of voxels and having fun sculpting them. Is there a way to merge certain layers together? does retopo work with this layer system, I havent tried?

also why is it that when you have multiple layers with multiple objects if you draw on one of the objects that isnt on your current layer voxel blobs will eventually pop through?

[kay_Eva]

I just upgraded from 42 alpha to 43 alpha and I'm so glad you make this program, I'm going to purchase ! :lol:

It's my pleasure to buy it!