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Modeling Room - Next Steps


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Hi Alex - Is it possible to get Surface Strip Tool  to work with curves? It seems to work only with draw mode ( freehand drawn line ) I ask because rather than draw a freehand stroke and then use the Surface Strip Tool you can position the curve 'guide' first, then use the Surface Strip Tool.

Edited by insignet
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Curves Question: The snapping options don't seem to snap how you would expect. For example I can select a point and choose to snap to another point and in the viewport it seems to snap ok. However if you rotate the viewport then it has not snapped. In fact its quite a distance away. Maybe something I'm doing wrong? I would expect it to snap to the point or to the curve.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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can we get a seperate hotkeys for each room please?

that way we can set up modelling to how we feel that wont interupt our sculpting workflow

also a different cursor in modelling room would be nice... something with more precision , i wont i can make the cursor smaller but then its constantly changing everything...

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2 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

About the cursor, please, in more detail, I do not understand.
Thank you.

actually the cursor is fine...

the more i use it , it actually feels ok...

its just little things like if you want box selection then you need to select one vertice and then use box selection,

most modelling tools would have a hotkey for box selection etc,

a useful tool next woul be connecting vertices through bad topology without using the knife tool...

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The modelling room still feels like it's a totally different element in 3dcoat.  
If I import a model in paintroom, it should be available in modelroom. If I import a model in modelroom, it should be available in paintroom and uvroom.
I just don't understand why we need to go through hoops to access the model in each room.

One of the best features of 3dcoat is when I import a model in paintroom and I paint on it, when I switch to uvroom I can adjust the uv of the model and then when I switch back to paintroom the changes are rebaked and have a new painted model with adjusted uvmap. That's amazing and so useful. But the issue I always had in uvroom was the lack of proper poly selection, hide tools and gizmo manipulation.

I was expecting the modelling room to add that capability and more. Imagine opening a model in modelroom and editing it. Then I unwrap and paint it seamlessly without the need to do other things just to make it "appear" in other rooms. I really don't get why a model doesn't become usable in paintroom, uvroom once it's imported in the modelroom. It's just convoluted. 


P.S.

Can't find a tool for the ff
Hide unselected
standard cut, copy, paste polygon

Edited by geo_n
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8 minutes ago, Gorbatovsky said:

A model in the paint room must be enabled for the Model room.
Thank you.

But why must it be manually done back and forth between modelroom and paintroom

Take mesh from paintroom
Update paint mesh with retopo mesh

I don't do anything like that in modo or blender. I can switch to editing poly, editing uvmap, painting  seamlessly on the same mesh.

Why not do it similar to paintroom <> uvroom? It's automatic with a little baking process in between. But the workflow is seamless and clear as ice. 

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On 1/13/2022 at 1:24 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

A model in the paint room must be enabled for the Model room.
Thank you.

But why must it be manually done back and forth between modelroom and paintroom

Take mesh from paintroom
Update paint mesh with retopo mesh

I don't do anything like that in modo or blender. I can switch to editing poly, editing uvmap, painting  seamlessly on the same mesh.

Why not do it similar to paintroom <> uvroom? It's automatic with a little baking process in between. But the workflow is seamless and clear as ice. 

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Inset command does not work with Ngon in Modelling Room. It works ok with Quad and Triangle. I think model tools should be free to work with Ngons, Quad and Tri's. Its important to get quick shapes regardless of poly vert count. What you think?

 

 

 

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On 1/13/2022 at 7:24 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

A model in the paint room must be enabled for the Model room.

A model in the paint room must be enabled for the Model room.
This is TODO.
At now we have three mesh. Sculpt mesh,  retopo mesh and paint mesh. 

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Currently Paint room, UV room and Tweak room are interconnected.

We dont need to send or bake anything to modify the same mesh on this rooms, we just switch rooms and everything is ok. 

The steps are clear and intuitive and it is not necessary to be scrutinizing how the software works internally to adapt our work. We just work and go.

Why not convert Modelling room in Tweak room reloaded ?

Tweak room tools are already too simple and obsolete. Being able to improve teak room turning it into the new modeling/tweak room would be a great improvement and would make 3DC much more useful by offering a workflow more appropriate to these times in a clear and precise way.

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Does the Strokes Tool work in the Model Room? You need a sculpt mesh in the sculpt room to use it, but even then the strokes do no create valid quad polys. Might be a bug, but I would remove it from the Model Room if its not generating the correct geometry.... its only going to confuse and frustrate beginners.

 

 

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The Curves/Strokes Tool works well... delete the Strokes Tool from the Model Room both are not needed - less tool clutter. But even the Curves/Strokes Tool is a retop tool rather than model tool?

Edited by insignet
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13 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Currently Paint room, UV room and Tweak room are interconnected.

We dont need to send or bake anything to modify the same mesh on this rooms, we just switch rooms and everything is ok. 

The steps are clear and intuitive and it is not necessary to be scrutinizing how the software works internally to adapt our work. We just work and go.

Why not convert Modelling room in Tweak room reloaded ?

Tweak room tools are already too simple and obsolete. Being able to improve teak room turning it into the new modeling/tweak room would be a great improvement and would make 3DC much more useful by offering a workflow more appropriate to these times in a clear and precise way.

 

16 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

A model in the paint room must be enabled for the Model room.
This is TODO.
At now we have three mesh. Sculpt mesh,  retopo mesh and paint mesh. 

 

Its certainly strange that the modelling room was coded this way. So in essence the modelling room is a separate entity inside 3dcoat. 
I agree with Carlosan, It would have been better if the tweakroom, which is connected to paintroom, uvroom, was the foundation of the modelroom.
It just doesn't feel very fluid to work on the modelroom, paintroom, uvroom at all.  Again in modo, blender, it's very fluid to switch to any mode seamlessly.

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2 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

We have a plan to move the tweak room to the model room.

Wow, this is really good news! :yahoo:

There is something that has been bothering me for a long time and I really want it to be changed.
I don't know if I can ask you. But maybe you can do it or comment it to the one who can do it.

The hierarchy of tools

How to access tool settings it is not clear because are in the same lateral panel. Tool and settings of tools are in the same visual hierarchy: this is not the best UI design.

This information is redundant, it could be changed so that not only we can access with RMB (as it is done now and it is fantastic) but also in a drop down menu that facilitates the use for graphic card users. But please remove it from the left tool bar.

RMB.jpg

Tools, tool options, commands (RMB), top tool bar... lot of visual information and tool settings separated and scattered all over the viewport

tools.jpg

//edit

Sorry i forgot to add Top tool bar too

top bar.jpg

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So, one solution will be mimic Maya Modeling Toolkit.

Look: all related commands are in one panel, easy to use, clear to see...

To open the Modeling Toolkit, click GUID-275A7B6D-1B8C-4E28-91B5-A12196F7ACF in the Status line.

Lets you initiate multiple modeling workflows from a single window.

GUID-17DA21F5-4502-489B-90DA-CA1949B919A

I'm not saying it's the best idea, it's just a suggestion. Others may have better ideas but maybe it helps as a pointer to find a way.

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Таким образом, одним из решений будет инструментарий моделирования mimic Maya.

Посмотрите: все связанные команды находятся на одной панели, просты в использовании, понятны для просмотра...

Чтобы открыть Набор инструментов моделирования, щелкните GUID-275A7B6D-1B8C-4E28-91B5-A12196F7ACF в строке состояния.

Позволяет запускать несколько рабочих процессов моделирования из одного окна.

GUID-17DA21F5-4502-489B-90DA-CA1949B919A

Я не говорю, что это лучшая идея, это просто предложение. У других могут быть идеи получше, но, возможно, это поможет найти способ.

Считаю такой вариант , который вы предлагаете  не инновационным и тоже устаревшим . 

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1 hour ago, Carlosan said:

Какой вариант будет лучше?

Eugene recorded a video about the menu for me 30 minutes.
We will discuss this a little later.
I am now finalizing the function for offset curves. Then we'll finish converting the text to curves.

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On 1/13/2022 at 6:43 AM, geo_n said:

But why must it be manually done back and forth between modelroom and paintroom

Take mesh from paintroom
Update paint mesh with retopo mesh

I don't do anything like that in modo or blender. I can switch to editing poly, editing uvmap, painting  seamlessly on the same mesh.

Why not do it similar to paintroom <> uvroom? It's automatic with a little baking process in between. But the workflow is seamless and clear as ice. 

This is exactly what I have asked Andrew for multiple times over the past few years. He said it is a good idea, but it has never been implemented. I can understand why Sculpt Meshes remain separate, but there should be one unified mesh in all other rooms. The way it is now is unnecessarily complicated for users, especially new ones, and it's just as hard trying to explain this complicated structure in 3DCoat, with 3 different mesh/object types that are tied to specific rooms. Anyone else who may want this, please send your request to Andrew, so it makes the high priority list. 

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As TimmyZDesign said:

I think this is actually one of the drawbacks of 3DCoat because an imported model will sometimes only exist in one room, while it doesn't exist in any other room, but other times it exists in multiple rooms at the same time, depending on what you are doing.

This makes 3DCoat different from most other 3D apps, because once you import a model into most other 3D apps, then that model is available to you at all times (in all "rooms") no matter what you are doing with it.

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On 1/17/2022 at 4:51 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

We have a plan to move the tweak room to the model room.

Does it mean the user no longer needs to do the steps I mentioned and can work seamlessly between paint, uv, model?

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ok found whats missing...

using a slider for scaling,insets,well anything is a very slow process...

is it possible to have the mouses movement instead? cursor closer is negative and further away would be positive...

its the one thing im finding a pain

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Would it be possible to dock the Curves Editor Menu? We can drag it away from the top menu which is good, but it has alot of useful options. When using curves we could dock it next to the Curves Tree. At the moment it keeps disappearing and then you have to go back to the top menu to drag it back into the workspace.

curves.thumb.png.32444f66332bb95ba5efda52623c90f8.png

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