Modeling Room - Next Steps

[thinkinmonkey]

What I'm talking about is the offset between the selected vertices and the gizmo, as you can see in the picture (1).

Then if it's possible the gizmo oriented as world, instead of pressing always the button of reset axis (2), which is a normal operation I think everyone of us does in every 3D software.

Then again, please! please! please! put at least the rectangle as stroke mode by default when working in modeling room (3).

Thanks

[Oleg Shapov]

1 hour ago, thinkinmonkey said:

What I'm talking about is the offset between the selected vertices and the gizmo, as you can see in the picture (1).

This is mistake. THX!

[thinkinmonkey]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:41 PM, Oleg_Shapo said:

This is mistake. THX!

Good to know, but when it will be fixed? Thanks

[Oleg Shapov]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:17 PM, thinkinmonkey said:

Good to know, but when it will be fixed? Thanks

I reported to the developer. But when it will be fixed is unknown.

[DMG]

Actually, a Modelling improvement has occurred to me:

I love the way the Smart Retopo tool has split Rings and Slide Edges built in. It makes it blazing fast to work with.

The Modelling room doesn't seem to have the Smart Retopo tool (For fairly obvious reasons, I'd say), but it would be great if the Split and Slide tools in the Modelling workspace could be combined into a single tool with the same shortcuts as the Retopo one.

Possibly base it on Slide Edge, with CTRL+SHIFT switching to Split Rings mode, and CTRL switching to Slide Loop mode.

Regards

[jene]

hello. this is my personal opinion. it is  not technical request.

 

I expect 3d-coat to learn the kindness that other 3D software has, not the special new features.

For example, in 3d-coat you delete with the delete key, but in Blender I delete vertices and edges with the X key.
This is a great feature. it is very kindly designed. I don't have to repeatedly go back and forth between the standard left hand position and the delete key.

For example, in Blender, I can select just the area enclosed by a rectangle, but with 3d-coat, it is difficult to make a precise selection because the selection extends beyond the area enclosed by the rectangle.

Or I have to press the ESC key twice because the selection I made earlier remains after using the transform function. This is another unfriendly feature, no matter how awesome the function is.

 

Each of these is a small inconvenience, but very important.

I want you to remember that tiredness, stressful and inconvenience is enemy of human.

 

anyway, everyday thank you for your development.

[DMG]

1 hour ago, jene said:

hello. this is my personal opinion. it is  not technical request.

 

I expect 3d-coat to learn the kindness that other 3D software has, not the special new features.

For example, in 3d-coat you delete with the delete key, but in Blender I delete vertices and edges with the X key.
This is a great feature. it is very kindly designed. I don't have to repeatedly go back and forth between the standard left hand position and the delete key.

For example, in Blender, I can select just the area enclosed by a rectangle, but with 3d-coat, it is difficult to make a precise selection because the selection extends beyond the area enclosed by the rectangle.

Or I have to press the ESC key twice because the selection I made earlier remains after using the transform function. This is another unfriendly feature, no matter how awesome the function is.

 

Each of these is a small inconvenience, but very important.

I want you to remember that tiredness, stressful and inconvenience is enemy of human.

 

anyway, everyday thank you for your development.

Totally agree.

I do judo, and have had the principle of 精力善用 drilled into me for decades.

[jene]

7 hours ago, jene said:

hello. this is my personal opinion. it is  not technical request.

 

I expect 3d-coat to learn the kindness that other 3D software has, not the special new features.

For example, in 3d-coat you delete with the delete key, but in Blender I delete vertices and edges with the X key.
This is a great feature. it is very kindly designed. I don't have to repeatedly go back and forth between the standard left hand position and the delete key.

For example, in Blender, I can select just the area enclosed by a rectangle, but with 3d-coat, it is difficult to make a precise selection because the selection extends beyond the area enclosed by the rectangle.

Or I have to press the ESC key twice because the selection I made earlier remains after using the transform function. This is another unfriendly feature, no matter how awesome the function is.

 

Each of these is a small inconvenience, but very important.

I want you to remember that tiredness, stressful and inconvenience is enemy of human.

 

anyway, everyday thank you for your development.

PS

it is very useful to reset the center of rotation with F key in 3D-coat.   it is great.

(blender is the numeric keypad "." key. it is inconvenient.)

[AbnRanger]

17 hours ago, jene said:

hello. this is my personal opinion. it is  not technical request.

 

I expect 3d-coat to learn the kindness that other 3D software has, not the special new features.

For example, in 3d-coat you delete with the delete key, but in Blender I delete vertices and edges with the X key.
This is a great feature. it is very kindly designed. I don't have to repeatedly go back and forth between the standard left hand position and the delete key.

For example, in Blender, I can select just the area enclosed by a rectangle, but with 3d-coat, it is difficult to make a precise selection because the selection extends beyond the area enclosed by the rectangle.

Or I have to press the ESC key twice because the selection I made earlier remains after using the transform function. This is another unfriendly feature, no matter how awesome the function is.

 

Each of these is a small inconvenience, but very important.

I want you to remember that tiredness, stressful and inconvenience is enemy of human.

 

anyway, everyday thank you for your development.

If you ask 10 different artists (who use 3DCoat regularly) what they prefer, in the scenarios you mentioned, half of them would probably agree and the other half would say they like it the way it currently is. An example they might give is because DELETE is simply intuitive for a new user. "X" is not, and surely some Non-Blender users would ask why the X key was chosen. I personally happen to like the decision to use the DELETE key...one reason is because that is how it works in Photoshop (and many, if not most applications). A number of things in the UI was patterned after Photoshop. It helps shorten the learning curve. Same thing with CTRL + D. It is the same DESELECT key as in Photoshop, so it is very easy to remember. Same goes for bracket keys adjusting brush size.

BTW, you can assign a different hotkey to the DELETE tool, if you really want to use the X hotkey. However, the X key is currently assigned to a Gizmo-less function...MOVE ALONG X AXIS. 

Just because things may work a certain way in a popular application like Blender, it doesn't necessarily mean it would be a great idea to apply it in other applications (at least not as the default). Sometimes yes and sometimes no. An example of this is the Gizmo-less transforms. Some people complained that it was hard to work in 3DCoat without this, but I learned 3D using 3DS Max and NEVER worked without a gizmo. When I saw Blender users working without a gizmo, I never felt a need for it, because I prefer working with gizmos. It gives me a visual frame of reference. Some feature additions or tweaks do indeed help everybody, but many are just personal preferences. Andrew has since added this as an option (EDIT menu > TRANSFORM WITHOUT GIZMO) 

I really love using my 3dconnexion device and cannot see myself working in 3D without it, but there are many artists who have never touched one and don't ever care to. So, we are really talking about "preferences" more than a genuine need. What is helpful for you and me isn't necessarily helpful for the next person. We see this come up in 3DCoat all the time. Someone asks Andrew to change the way something is done in the app > he quietly makes the change and it ends up annoying many users. This is why Andrew often makes new changes optional. An example of this is the workspace tabs. Many people asked for the UI to be consolidated and less cluttered, but when Andrew did this by putting the tabs in a drop list menu in the upper left, it annoyed many long time users. The tabs are now available again as an option.

As for the need to hit ESC twice, this is for a solid reason. Once to drop the gizmo, a second time to drop the selection. Why? Because it is intuitive. Many times when making a selection, you may want to keep it and use different tools on the same selection. One example might be using the Transform tool to transform a selected group of faces/edges/vertices > then use the RELAX tool on the same selection. I do this a LOT, when I work and it would annoy the heck out of me if hitting the ESC key dropped the TRANSFORM tool + Selection. If I do want to drop both at the same time, it is not a hassle nor inconvenience for me to tap the ESC key twice in quick succession.

[jene]

4 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

So, we are really talking about "preferences" more than a genuine need. What is helpful for you and me isn't necessarily helpful for the next person.

hello, AbnRanger.

yes so, first I wrote "this is my personal opinion".

finally, the software system is decided by Andrew.

but you're right. we are selfish.

We have to think that Maybe Andrew takes user feedback too seriously.

 

 

dear Mr.Andrew.

3D-coat is your software. please decide it by your feeling. please don't listen our selfish request.

If I find your system easy to use, I just use 3D-coat.

if I find your system difficult to use, I just use other software.

I apologize for my confusing remark.

I still think that 3D-coat is one of the best function in many 3D software.

thank you

Edited August 1, 2023 by jene

[Gorbatovsky]

23 hours ago, jene said:

For example, in 3d-coat you delete with the delete key, but in Blender I delete vertices and edges with the X key.

Specially launched the Blender program.
Selected 4 faces and pressed the delete button.
Menu appeared -

[Gorbatovsky]

23 hours ago, jene said:

For example, in Blender, I can select just the area enclosed by a rectangle, but with 3d-coat, it is difficult to make a precise selection because the selection extends beyond the area enclosed by the rectangle.

If you want to select by Rectangle, we have two variants.
p1.x > p2.x
p1.x < p2.x
Or vice versa. I don't remember how it works in the program AutoCAD.

[AbnRanger]

2 hours ago, jene said:

hello, AbnRanger.

yes so, first I wrote "this is my personal opinion".

finally, the software system is decided by Andrew.

but you're right. we are selfish.

We have to think that Maybe Andrew takes user feedback too seriously.

 

 

dear Mr.Andrew.

3D-coat is your software. please decide it by your feeling. please don't listen our selfish request.

If I find your system easy to use, I just use 3D-coat.

if I find your system difficult to use, I just use other software.

I apologize for my confusing remark.

I still think that 3D-coat is one of the best function in many 3D software.

thank you

Making a request is good and normal thing, but my point was that sometimes we can present things as a problem simply because 3DC doesn't do things exactly the way ZB or Blender does. Sometimes the critiques/criticisms are totally legit, and other times it is preference, not a problem. That is all I was saying. We don't have to all agree on everything. I am left handed, so my free right hand is closer to the DELETE key...thus it's not a problem for me.Nevertheless, you actually can change that hotkey assignment (of the DELETE tool) to whichever you prefer (hover your cursor over the tool in the SELECTED section of the Tool panel > hit the END key on the keyboard and then give it the "X" assignment...but remember, this will overwright the hotkey assignment (from Blender) to MOVE ALONG X AXIS.

 

 

 

[rubeos]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:44 PM, jene said:

Ciao. questa è la mia opinione personale. non è una richiesta tecnica.

 

Mi aspetto che 3d-coat apprenda la gentilezza di altri software 3D, non le nuove funzionalità speciali.

Ad esempio, in 3d-coat elimini con il tasto Canc, ma in Blender elimino vertici e bordi con il tasto X.
Questa è una grande caratteristica. è molto gentilmente progettato. Non devo andare ripetutamente avanti e indietro tra la posizione standard della mano sinistra e il tasto Canc.

Ad esempio, in Blender posso selezionare solo l'area racchiusa da un rettangolo, ma con 3d-coat è difficile effettuare una selezione precisa perché la selezione si estende oltre l'area racchiusa dal rettangolo.

Oppure devo premere due volte il tasto ESC perché la selezione che ho fatto in precedenza rimane dopo aver usato la funzione di trasformazione. Questa è un'altra caratteristica ostile, non importa quanto sia fantastica la funzione.

 

Ognuno di questi è un piccolo inconveniente, ma molto importante.

Voglio che tu ricordi che la stanchezza, lo stress e il disagio sono nemici dell'umano.

 

comunque, ogni giorno grazie per il tuo sviluppo.

I can assume you use the stylus pen with your right hand.
However, the devices are the same for all of us. In the end, a slice of people encounter the same banal problems and inconveniences due to the position of the hands on the physical tools.

Using the pen with the right hand (or, to a lesser extent the mouse), the left hand places almost always on the left of the keyboard.
Given these conditions it is very inconvenient to press: Enter, Delete, numeric keypad (located at the antipodes) plus, minus, ...and in general all keys become uncomfortable as you move away to the right. To press these buttons you almost have to cross the left arm against the right, or force you to lift the pen from the tablet.
That’s why I always hated Blender’s  Y key, for the snap on Y axis.
Blender’s keyboard is not logically and functionally mapped to human anatomy.
The keys that are most frequently used should be mapped to be pressed quickly in the area of the keyboard where is the hand that does not hold the pen or mouse. In my case the left.
In my case the snap on the axes should not be Z,X, Y. But Z,X;C. Luckily Blender allows a strange alternative snap mechanism by holding the alt key.

Edited August 3, 2023 by rubeos

[AbnRanger]

3 hours ago, rubeos said:

I can assume you use the stylus pen with your right hand.
However, the devices are the same for all of us. In the end, a slice of people encounter the same banal problems and inconveniences due to the position of the hands on the physical tools.

Using the pen with the right hand (or, to a lesser extent the mouse), the left hand places almost always on the left of the keyboard.
Given these conditions it is very inconvenient to press: Enter, Delete, numeric keypad (located at the antipodes) plus, minus, ...and in general all keys become uncomfortable as you move away to the right. To press these buttons you almost have to cross the left arm against the right, or force you to lift the pen from the tablet.
That’s why I always hated Blender’s  Y key, for the snap on Y axis.
Blender’s keyboard is not logically and functionally mapped to human anatomy.
The keys that are most frequently used should be mapped to be pressed quickly in the area of the keyboard where is the hand that does not hold the pen or mouse. In my case the left.
In my case the snap on the axes should not be Z,X, Y. But Z,X;C. Luckily Blender allows a strange alternative snap mechanism by holding the alt key.

Have you tried the HMC Voice Command for 3DCoat, yet? I think this would make your experience so much better. You not only don't have to move your hand all the way across the keyboard for certain hotkeys, but you also don't have to stop what you are doing > look down at the keyboard at all...practically speaking. You don't even have to remember what hotkey is assigned to given tool or brush. It will change your workflow, considerably.

 

[rubeos]

No I haven’t tried it yet. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Jones C]

Hi, may i know Is there an extrude function in 3DCoat that behave like QMesh in ZBrush?

[Gorbatovsky]

7 hours ago, Jones C said:

like QMesh in ZBrush?

See please, Multi Extrude.

What exactly did you like about QMesh?

[Jones C]

 

22 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

See please, Multi Extrude.

What exactly did you like about QMesh?

Qmesh negative extrude to remove surfaces, and ability to auto snap to other surface then fuse.

[Gorbatovsky]

1 hour ago, Jones C said:

Qmesh negative extrude to remove surfaces

Thank you.

[thinkinmonkey]

Hello,

deleting edges at corners, still leaves their vertices and it creates funny geometry.

Could it be fixed?

Thanks

[Gorbatovsky]

32 minutes ago, thinkinmonkey said:

deleting edges at corners, still leaves their vertices

If four top faces moved along Y before deleting edges.

 

All be OK

[thinkinmonkey]

Ok, @Gorbatovsky, your workaround seems to work, for this situation, thanks.

[animk]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:30 AM, AbnRanger said:

 

 

Making a request is good and normal thing, but my point was that sometimes we can present things as a problem simply because 3DC doesn't do things exactly the way ZB or Blender does. Sometimes the critiques/criticisms are totally legit, and other times it is preference, not a problem. That is all I was saying. We don't have to all agree on everything. I am left handed, so my free right hand is closer to the DELETE key...thus it's not a problem for me.Nevertheless, you actually can change that hotkey assignment (of the DELETE tool) to whichever you prefer (hover your cursor over the tool in the SELECTED section of the Tool panel > hit the END key on the keyboard and then give it the "X" assignment...but remember, this will overwright the hotkey assignment (from Blender) to MOVE ALONG X AXIS.

 

 

 

I never understand why this axis constraint in blender is a good feature, I personally find it very difficult to use.  I need to remember which axis the movement is and look at the keyboard to press the x,y or z.  A gizmo is much more convenient.

Edited January 4 by animk

[animk]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:25 AM, thinkinmonkey said:

What I'm talking about is the offset between the selected vertices and the gizmo, as you can see in the picture (1).

Then if it's possible the gizmo oriented as world, instead of pressing always the button of reset axis (2), which is a normal operation I think everyone of us does in every 3D software.

Then again, please! please! please! put at least the rectangle as stroke mode by default when working in modeling room (3).

Thanks

I would like to have world orient as default too.  For now I assign "w" as hotkey for "reset Axis"(w switches to move mode and reset the orient), it's easier than press the button.

[thinkinmonkey]

3 minutes ago, animk said:

I never understand why this axis constraint in blender is a good feature, I personally find it very difficult to use.  I need to remember which axis the movement is and look at the keyboard to press the x,y or z.  A gizmo is much more convenient.

It's a good feature, as I use that daily, you need practice, but it works. To be honest, since I started using Blender before being so popular, I found gizmo even too intrusive!

The good thing is Blender gives you feedback, so you know which axis you're working on, because it displays a line on which the transformation is happening, plus the color of that line is according the axis you chose: red for X, green for Y and blue for Z. And I think that's the best feedback a software can give you while working.

You can see a screenshot from the video in the post: the red line is X axis.

Plus you can read the text on the top, useful especially when inserting numeric values for exact transformations:

But, then again, it has more to do with practice and daily tasks, Blender has always been a software of "with both hands": one on mouse and the other one on keyboard for shortcuts

[thinkinmonkey]

6 minutes ago, animk said:

I would like to have world orient as default too.  For now I assign "w" as hotkey for "reset Axis"(w switches to move mode and reset the orient), it's easier than press the button.

Yeap, that seems a nice solution or workaround, thanks, but, if I may, I would like not to "waste" a shortcut for making 3DC behaving like other softwares normally do. For that and other things, I'm still postponing a "serious" modeling session with 3DC.

[Elemeno]

dont think ive ever modelled using 3dcoat ... the voxels allow me to create any shape i want .. , i find polygon modelling redundant these days 

[animk]

11 hours ago, Elemeno said:

dont think ive ever modelled using 3dcoat ... the voxels allow me to create any shape i want .. , i find polygon modelling redundant these days 

I would like to use modeling room to model some standard hard surface objects so I don't need to retopo them.

[thinkinmonkey]

 

15 hours ago, Elemeno said:

dont think ive ever modelled using 3dcoat ... the voxels allow me to create any shape i want .. , i find polygon modelling redundant these days 

 

3 hours ago, animk said:

I would like to use modeling room to model some standard hard surface objects so I don't need to retopo them.

Both are valid points!