Member cedric Posted October 16, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi, I'm new to this forum so hello everyone. I have 2 questions : is there any discussion thread where I can post some bugs reports or questions ? I need to read a lot of previous messages because sometime I don't know if I meet a bug or if it's the normal way the program works. For exemple, I sculpt a model, then use the Pinch tool, then go back to another tool (let say Spray/tha for exemple) and all I have done with the pinch disappear (see the attach picture and don't laugh , it's less than a 10 minutes job just to illustrate my message) Another question (for Andrew) : I am actually writing my review of 3DCoat and I'd like to know if I can show, on my blog and on some places on the web, pictures of new features like volumetric sculpting. I don't plan to show the tools but some samples of models I do using voxels and saying it's done with it, with maybe some screenshots (only the model) of steps from start to end model. Best regards and I hope my message is not too much off topic and don't disturb Cédric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 As for the pinch that's the way it works for right now, if you increase the resolution of the model that helps a lot. Have you tried using the voxel pinch? I don't mean to speak for Andrew but from my understanding anything that is currently viewable in this forum or in the program is OK to discuss on the web. I even made a YouTube video of the VS features and it was not only OK with Andrew, he posted a link to it in the first post of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi,I'm new to this forum so hello everyone. I have 2 questions : is there any discussion thread where I can post some bugs reports or questions ? I need to read a lot of previous messages because sometime I don't know if I meet a bug or if it's the normal way the program works. For exemple, I sculpt a model, then use the Pinch tool, then go back to another tool (let say Spray/tha for exemple) and all I have done with the pinch disappear (see the attach picture and don't laugh , it's less than a 10 minutes job just to illustrate my message) Another question (for Andrew) : I am actually writing my review of 3DCoat and I'd like to know if I can show, on my blog and on some places on the web, pictures of new features like volumetric sculpting. I don't plan to show the tools but some samples of models I do using voxels and saying it's done with it, with maybe some screenshots (only the model) of steps from start to end model. Best regards and I hope my message is not too much off topic and don't disturb Cédric I am glad to hear that you are writing review! That is cool! Of course you can use every image/video/citation/link/screenshots that you will find on this forum. Aput pinch - while going surace->voxels some sharpness will be lost because of voxels resolution is limited. Phil Nolan is right - increase res for more sharpness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cedric Posted October 16, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I am glad to hear that you are writing review! That is cool!Of course you can use every image/video/citation/link/screenshots that you will find on this forum. Aput pinch - while going surace->voxels some sharpness will be lost because of voxels resolution is limited. Phil Nolan is right - increase res for more sharpness. thank you About pinch, I understand that when I use Pinch, the "pinched voxels" I can see are only virtual. It looks like the tool increases the resolution while working but comes back to the resolution of the object when leaving it. Ok. For now I havn't tried the Vox pinch but I'll do. About pictures : I will only use pictures I'll do in my review. When I write a review, I want to show to the reader that I'm not only doing a quickly made review using presskit images but I want to show him that I have really tried the program and so the screenshots are really ok with the text I write. Anyway, at the end of the review I sometime give links to other people images but before I ask if it's ok for everyone. I'm really impressed by 3DCoat so I want to do what I can to promote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I am working hard over this problem. It has 1-st priory. I hope you can fix it. In the left of the screen,on the low,statistics give me 2547 megabyte of free space when working on that file,if I increase resolution I go to 1040 mega,I think it should be possible saving the file with 1 giga of free space,and I find strange that with 2500 mega free mem it gives me that error after some hours. Btw,thank you very much for the work and thanks for people who like my model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Link is updated to V30 Changes: 1) Hide tool ! 2) Less memory usage, faster work, less leaks, better stability (I hope, but need testing) 3) Much less 3B file size, 3x or 4x less. But: please keep backups, file format was essentially changed 4) Improvement in carve tool - better work on thin surfaces 5) Minor improvements in corves/snake 6) Retopo & VS speed improvement 7) Faster Inc resolution and smooth all. But inc resolution still requires smoothing. Minor UI style tweaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Jokermax Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 +Thanks for extending alpha period too! - hide tool needs Unhide All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 - hide tool needs Unhide All There is Unhide All button at the bottom in hide tool. Also, hide tool works well with rect selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I have only briefly played with it but Hide seems to be working very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cyartist Posted October 16, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi Andrew, Last version is great. Memory Handling seems better. Is there a painted masking function in Voxels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thankyou very much for the update. Hiding is an essential workflow improvement. With that said there are a few big problems with it. Its much too rough and very hard to control. Yes lasso works. But it seems to hide "chunks". Now i know this is probably to keep it fast but just so you have reference take my frog model. The smallest "patch" i can hide is about the size of his eye. This is really not fine enough. Not only that; it doesnt seem to be projection based. With this i mean that if i try to hide the body of the frog thats floating over the rock i WILL always hide part of the rock too even when thats NOT in my initial lasso selection. Its like the whole scene is divided into big blocks (much bigger then the voxels themselves) and when you hide something it just clears whatever is in that block. Even if the extents of that block fall out of the lasso selection. I tried it with perspective toggled off just to see wether that messed with it (because thats actually a bug in zbrush with the hiding tool if you would believe it) but that gave me the same result. Overall the resolution really just needs to be much finer. Id like to hide comparable to the voxel resolution im sculpting at. With that out of the way im gonna put the latest release through its paces now! 3dioot PS One little thing. I noticed this with alpha 29 too. The installer defaults to installing in a map called /....alpha28. This is quite bad because if you are not paying attention to your install you will overwrite your previous version plus it makes it hard to compare versions. Like yesterday i got confused with having installed version 29 because i noticed i only had version 28 in my program files directory. When i fired it up it turned out to be v29 so i knew then that i had overwritten v28 without realising it. Its a small thing but perhaps wise to be alert on to avoid possible confusion/drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 By map you mean the directory? My installed into: C:\Program Files (x86)\3D-Coat-3-00-ALPHA Just like all of the other Alphas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 3DBob Posted October 16, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Nice additions - but crashes as before, 20 mins in. 3DBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Weird.. Then maybe it "remembers" where the previous one was installed and it was just the last map that i specified. I know i have entered it manually a few times so i could have the different versions to compare stuff that got changed. Perhaps 3dcoat stores the install directory in the registry and just takes that as the default to install to with a new version/release. Thats most likely what happened then. If its supposed to work this way then its fine by me and ill just specify the map myself. 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Just wanted to say im very happy with fixing of carve on thin surfaces. It used to take the "back" surface before which would result in carve adding on the backside instead of the frontside. In v30 i can use carve on my cat ears while i couldnt in v29! I hope your still thinking of making an "alternative carve" sometime with suggestions from carve thread 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member SonK Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 By map you mean the directory? My installed into:C:\Program Files (x86)\3D-Coat-3-00-ALPHA Just like all of the other Alphas. abit off topic, but.. Whats up with that directory? i get that in Vista 64 bit..which one should you install to Program Files or Program Files(x86)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member David Walters Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 What's up with that directory? i get that in Vista 64 bit..which one should you install to Program Files or Program Files(x86)? It's a 64-bit only thing - the (x86) version of Program Files is where 32-bit apps (like 3d-Coat) are designed to live. TBH I've not got much in my Program Files folder at all. I guess Wikipedia will tell you more about this in more detail, it's late here :lol: I think the purpose of it is so you can have both 32 and 64 versions of the same app installed, e.g. 3ds Max does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Scott Posted October 16, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 So far Alpha 30 is excellent for myself, the performance is substantially better... Also increasing resolution on VS is almost instant now.... Much Better! Kudos Andrew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member SonK Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 It's a 64-bit only thing - the (x86) version of Program Files is where 32-bit apps (like 3d-Coat) are designed to live. TBH I've not got much in my Program Files folder at all. I guess Wikipedia will tell you more about this in more detail, it's late here :lol: I think the purpose of it is so you can have both 32 and 64 versions of the same app installed, e.g. 3ds Max does this. lol, crap i've been putting all my 32 bit programs in the normal Program File directory! So far Alpha 30 is excellent for myself, the performance is substantially better...Also increasing resolution on VS is almost instant now.... Much Better! Kudos Andrew! I've only been playing around with it for 15 minutes but i have to agree it feels faster, and the brushes are more fine tone(work faster,better). Usually they are slow at 4 million triangles, but in alpha 30 they were still responsive. BTW, am i the only one that thinks we should get rid of the surface tools? Beside flatten, you pretty much have the same tools in Voxel version. I say that also, because there are issue with surface to voxel conversion, which is the main reason i've been sticking with the voxel tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted October 16, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 BTW, am i the only one that thinks we should get rid of the surface tools? Beside flatten, you pretty much have the same tools in Voxel version. I say that also, because there are issue with surface to voxel conversion, which is the main reason i've been sticking with the voxel tools. No your not. I agree with you 110%. Ive been asking for voxel equivalents for all tools since way back. In fact in the "carve and related tools" thread i specifically requested a voxel flatten. Its silly you are forced to degrade your voxel sculpt by switching to polygons and then back again just for using flatten. In my humble opinion you should only ever have to deal with polygons during final export, nowhere before that. Now it could be that its neccesary to perform some actions in polygons (im thinking of general transforms of sculpts and transpose) but if its in an way possible those tools should be voxel tools aswel. As a sidenote (i may put this in the tools thread) i never really gotten voxel pinch to work pleasingly in comparison to the polygon version. If you use both versions next to eachother the difference is very clear. Polygon pinch works perfectly (it really does) and voxel pinch doesnt come close (it feels very weak). Have you noticed that too Sonk? 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member SonK Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 No your not. I agree with you 110%. Ive been asking for voxel equivalents for all tools since way back. In fact in the "carve and related tools" thread i specifically requested a voxel flatten. Its silly you are forced to degrade your voxel sculpt by switching to polygons and then back again just for using flatten. In my humble opinion you should only ever have to deal with polygons during final export, nowhere before that. Now it could be that its neccesary to perform some actions in polygons (im thinking of general transforms of sculpts and transpose) but if its in an way possible those tools should be voxel tools aswel. As a sidenote (i may put this in the tools thread) i never really gotten voxel pinch to work pleasingly in comparison to the polygon version. If you use both versions next to eachother the difference is very clear. Polygon pinch works perfectly (it really does) and voxel pinch doesnt come close (it feels very weak). Have you noticed that too Sonk? 3dioot I haven't tested the pinch tool much, until now. Your right the voxel pinch is way too weak, strength between .5 and 1 doesn't seem to be different. The surface pinch tool work perfect i agree, but the issue with that is when you switch back to voxel mode/tool your once perfect pinched surface is a mess(it seems to expand abit). I think both issue are because the voxel themselves aren't small enough in there current state. this is my you cant get a nice thin pinch with the voxel version and why converting from surface to voxel loses that perfect pinched detail. Trying to get very thin pinched surface(i.e. 1 voxel) would require require smaller voxel or increase resolution.The latter shouldn't be an issue ,because typically you be adding high density detail on a increased resolution mesh. In other words pinch isn't someone you'll used on a low res mesh. However i still think the voxel pinch strength needs to be stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 One thing I've noticed about Pinch is that you can't make corners with it. Like imagine a table top. You can get a sharp edge along the side of it and a sharp edge along another side, but where those edges meet it gets rounded off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member UnCommonGrafx Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Try turning up the depth to some crazy number like 500. Pinch works pinchy-like at that number One thing I've noticed about Pinch is that you can't make corners with it. Like imagine a table top. You can get a sharp edge along the side of it and a sharp edge along another side, but where those edges meet it gets rounded off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Haha thanks. I'll do that Edit: Nope still looks rounded and kinda smooshed. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Nice additions - but crashes as before, 20 mins in. 3DBob Please try to use default shader. Maybe there is some driver - related video memory leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ldzywsj Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Andrew,In Volumertic sculpting,freeze is more useful than hide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Andrew,In Volumertic sculpting,freeze is more useful than hide! Ha, as always I have made what was more easy But why Hide is important - to speed up work. Less poly - faster work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I haven't tested the pinch tool much, until now. Your right the voxel pinch is way too weak, strength between .5 and 1 doesn't seem to be different. The surface pinch tool work perfect i agree, but the issue with that is when you switch back to voxel mode/tool your once perfect pinched surface is a mess(it seems to expand abit). I think both issue are because the voxel themselves aren't small enough in there current state. this is my you cant get a nice thin pinch with the voxel version and why converting from surface to voxel loses that perfect pinched detail. Trying to get very thin pinched surface(i.e. 1 voxel) would require require smaller voxel or increase resolution.The latter shouldn't be an issue ,because typically you be adding high density detail on a increased resolution mesh. In other words pinch isn't someone you'll used on a low res mesh. However i still think the voxel pinch strength needs to be stronger. Just for clarity im not saying we should keep surface pinch. I fully agree with the 100% voxel workflow for obvious reasons. I just mentioned it for comparison. Ofcourse i prefer to work with voxel pinch; it needs to be improved though so that it works more like the polygon pinch. Eventhough i understand fully resolution plays a much bigger role in voxel pinching then in polygon pinching simply because with polygon pinching you litterally pull polygons together thereby increasing the resolution locally where you are pinching. Since with voxel pinch you are working with a resolution that is fixed in worldspace this is a behaviour you cant mimic a full 100%. As you have said pinch is quite resolution dependant. However i do believe it can (and should) be improved considerably compared to where it is now. Ill play a bit with overcranking the depth; thanks for the tip uncommongrafx! 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mal Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi Andrew. Terrific improvement in memory management in V30. I previously posted a horsehead model(see Volumetric Sculpting WIPs) which I could only subdivide to 513K triangles(number of pointers was around 500K). Any further attempts to increase the resolution resulted in out of memory errors. I reloaded the model in V30 and the number of pointers dropped to ~80K and I have been able to increase the resolution to over 4M triangles(with ~360K pointers)! Great work!! As I said before 3dCoat is the best $70 I've ever spent!! Cheers Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member UnCommonGrafx Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Ya know, Phil, I think it's either broken or... not working as it used to. Andrew, the pinch tool... does it raise the pinched area? This is what I am noticing it is not doing; there is no ridge being built as one paints. As well, it seems to flatten all other detail around it instead of 'pinching' the material, as I said above, into a pinched mound. Some really fun stuff = Easy to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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