Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 12, 2023 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 On 3/23/2023 at 5:09 PM, Curry3D said: All the fanboys can suck my... you know what. No seriously the new pricing is just intolerable. Alone 60 € price increase for the individual version is insufferable. What do you devs think who you are. It's not that your little piece of software is so good that it's used in the industry even after 20 years or so it still remains in its niche. 3DCoat stands especially for one thing: BUGS. Your software is so buggy it almost cruises around on the beach. It's still not polished, it's still cumbersome and not predictable in many areas. It breaks all the time for no apparant reason. Bugs that used to be fixed come back in later revisions. AND SO ON. Now with competetion of Blender there is even less arguments to use 3DC. It was nice when it was a little gem used by a few hobbyists. Now it gives the IMPRESSION that it's a professional software but it's far from that. I for myself can definitely say that I will sail the seas regarding 3DC. F* you. Wow. There is no place for this kind of talk on a software forum. You can have different views about the features that are needed and improvements without this kind of vitriol and abuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted October 12, 2023 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 It is not the way to speak in a forum but unfortunately it exposes something that users cannot deny, I have been trying to defend myself with 3DC for more than a year and I waste more time figuring out how to solve a problem than working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 If after a year using the learning version you do not feel comfortable using the software, perhaps it is not appropriate for you and you should look for another tool that better suits your needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 12, 2023 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, pieralessi said: It is not the way to speak in a forum but unfortunately it exposes something that users cannot deny, I have been trying to defend myself with 3DC for more than a year and I waste more time figuring out how to solve a problem than working. Generally, if you have a problem, it is good to try and test and see if it is repeatable on a simple test scene...like those you find available from the splash screen. I don't run into as many issues as you have, but yes, there are times when a certain tool you want to use is buggy. Andrew is pretty responsive, though. So, if you can repeat the same problem (I sometimes just restart the app because it helps once in a while) on a sample scene/model, chances are it is indeed a bug. If you can show that in an email to support@pilgway.com, you will be surprised how quickly it gets addressed. There may be some exceptions, but Andrew tries to squash quickly any bugs that are brought to his attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted October 13, 2023 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 I know it and it's what I usually do, but I can't be glued to the support 24/7/365 days, the idea is to work fluidly, for that I decided to BUY the program and leave Blender but I see that it was preferable to invest the money in more training courses. Blender than in 3DBug. If I had given myself the adventure of living in 3D I would have already died of hunger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member tiburbage Posted February 11 Member Report Share Posted February 11 (edited) On 1/19/2023 at 10:02 PM, Koray said: I did renew but I agree with most of the above. 3DC Dev team needs a dedicated developer who is listening to artists and their needs, while Andrew and rest of the team does their funky stuff that nobody uses. It already has most of the features needed in the industry. It doesnt have to have everything like Blender. Good post op I think they would be well served to have at least one full-time evangelist in the way that Pixologic has always had Paul Gaboury, and for a while had the great production artist/ZBrush expert on staff. They acted as the "front end" of the product team, producing learning materials, Paul owned the documentation and has always kept it fully-up-to-date, acting as presenters at their highly attended Summit meetings. Both understand both the artist perspective and that of the developers enough to be able to "translate" between them. I suspect both were empowered to fix minor bugs themselves, like adding a missing tooltip, fixing typo's, whatever. The challenge for 3DCoat is probably needing an English/Ukrainian speaker to make sure the communications are clear and well understood. It is probably hard to find people with strong 3D artist creds but whom also understands developers and the technical side of things. On 1/20/2023 at 6:53 AM, AbnRanger said: 5) There is more than a few (tutorials). There are HUNDREDS on the 3DCoat Youtube Channel, and they are placed in the appropriate playlist. https://www.youtube.com/@PILGWAY3DCoat/playlists Anton Tenitsky's Youtube Channel is also a great place to look and he has a number of series (including some paid tutorial series), covering the basics as well as more advanced projects, using a wide assortment of tools in the process. https://www.youtube.com/@AntonTenitsky https://www.youtube.com/@AntonTenitsky/playlists https://tenitsky.gumroad.com/ Industry Tuts also has a lot of good 3DCoat content as well: https://www.youtube.com/@industrytuts5272/videos LearnSquared has a number of 3DCoat related courses, taught by industry artists such as Jama Jurabaev (Concept Artist and Art Director at Lucas Films) https://www.learnsquared.com/courses/intro-3dconcept https://www.learnsquared.com/courses/armada-concept-art https://www.learnsquared.com/courses/creature-design On the 3DCoat Facebook page, there are tutorials posted there on a regular basis. https://www.facebook.com/3DCoat I agree with AbnRanger on the 3DCoat YouTube tutorials side -- the majority of 3DCoat's feature set has been pretty well covered at the demo/"how-to" level, and some lean into workflow territory as well. I would encourage users really committed to learning the app to check out the Playlists like "Quick Start", or search under Videos/All for "Quick Start" and notice there are a number of topics which have up to 4 or 5 parts, and so with extended coverage of a particular feature area. I've watched all of them and they were all useful and still mostly relevant. The "hole in the boat", especially for new users is that many of those videos are now 7-11 years old, showing a now quite old early/mid v4 UI, and it should not be surprising that a new user would be hesitant to watch such old tutorials. Some of these are still valid, some are pretty clearly in need of a refresher, or perhaps retirement. In terms of the long form "soup to nuts" learning courses, aka project-based learning, what you will notice is that while CONCEPTING tools and workflow coverage has really proliferated, and a lot of credit for that goes to Anton @AntonTenitskyas really leading the way there. However, those for the most part only cover the Sculpt room, and mostly Voxel. But go out there and try to find in-depth, project-based "soup to nuts" courses for full cycle of PRODUCTION asset creation: characters/clothing/accessories, more complex hard surface projects like vehicles, props. If you find any good ones, please post a link! In my mind, the YouTube and Udemy courses by@AlienMinefieldare still by far the best example of that kind of project-based, extended learning material in a 3DCoat-centric context. They are still mostly valid today, but were created way back in v4, so they obviously don't express the significantly improved UI and functionality of 3DCoat 2023. So that's kind of sad On 1/20/2023 at 2:06 PM, Carlosan said: @Koray do not try to learn all the rooms at the same time. Just focus on the part of the program useful for you. 3DC is several applications in one, which are not working together as a whole. @AbnRanger a valid point: Let me add an example: new loop multiresolution > new feature but no videos or tuts. With every new feature release, will be great to release 2 video topics - One focused in the tool, values, commands (technical view) - and other showing workflows and walkthrough about how this new paradigm is used in a common task, classic to found on other apps (artistic view) everyone know high to lowpoly multiresolution workflow using CatmullClark subdivision. high to lowpoly multiresolution using Loop subdivisions is different, it would be good to show the pros and cons for users who need to compare different procedures. Yeah, it should never be assumed that users, even power users, will fully understand the intended benefits of key functional additions or changes. Those insights have to be brought to light, or really good, hard work by developers may not have the positive impact it could... Edited February 12 by tiburbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lizbot Posted March 2 Member Report Share Posted March 2 I know this is an old thread but, I can't resist adding my thoughts. 3D Coat is the most affordable decent 3D program I have come across, its also the easiest to learn, I mean, the UV unwrapping alone makes it worth $100 Euro. Because it is so similar to PS it makes it even easier to learn in my opinion. I am not even using this program to its full potential, since i had to learn a workflow fast to use for producing models quickly, i don't seem to find the tutorials to teach all of its features and the tutorials there are not easy to follow, bad audio etc. I mostly use an old copy of maya to do my modelling then import to 3d Coat for everything else. I always tell people about 3D Coat, it is seriously SO EASY to get started modelling and has many powerful tools for texturing. I simply cannot believe that people are here complaining so much, sure blender is free but who can use their terrible UI. Just the worst. Maya is super expensive for an individual working freelance, and how many other programs give you a perpetual license, this is truly the greatest for me, you can make really awesome textures/smart materials easily, more easy than substance designer. Thank you to the entire team who work on 3D Coat and give the support, its wonderful and you all are super clever. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Boozer Posted March 2 Member Report Share Posted March 2 I would write a reply to Lizbot but a mod would never approve my content. Right Oleg, Carlos? Have a nice weekend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 Hi Just follow the forum rules, ok ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 3 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 3 (edited) On 10/12/2023 at 6:19 PM, Carlosan said: If after a year using the learning version you do not feel comfortable using the software, perhaps it is not appropriate for you and you should look for another tool that better suits your needs. In 2023 I bought a license on sale 2022 without being warned that they would launch 2023 shortly and I was allowed to update without warning of a cost and that it would be learning, full of bugs, if you trade with hypocrisy you will not get satisfied customers, do not use the situation in your country to excuse yourself and sell a product, I am an immigrant from a country governed by Russia, China, Iran, Cuba and many more, it is called Venezuela, they suffer great misery and do not receive help from anyone because those of us who worked We really had to leave to save our lives from communism. Edited March 3 by pieralessi Specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Shapov Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2024 at 8:44 AM, Boozer said: I would write a reply to Lizbot but a mod would never approve my content. Objective criticism is always welcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 @pieralessi I already apologized at the time for my confusion, I understood that you were using the learning version, not what you had purchased. Did you get the refund you requested at sales@3dcoat.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 3 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 3 38 minutes ago, Carlosan said: @pieralessi I already apologized at the time for my confusion, I understood that you were using the learning version, not what you had purchased. Did you get the refund you requested at sales@3dcoat.com? I bought the 2022 but in the last conversations via email, it was explained to me that I could return to the 2022 but with the errors of that version. He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine and did not offer me a refund. I responded that you can't sell me a version with unresolved bug fixes from a previous version. It's like you buy a dealership car without a warranty. Some time ago, shortly after having bought the 2022 in an offer, I was offered an apparent update, nowhere did it talk about paying an amount for it and it was not understood as learning, in any case it would be a trial version, I realized Later, when I noticed it in some very small letters in the presentation of the program, I complained about this and it was explained to me via email that I had to pay $35, in addition to the fact that the 2023 was also full of bugs and both the manuals and official YouTube videos are barely demonstrative of some things and many of them from an old interface (for a new user these changes are very confusing). In this version of learning, many explanations of the icons were missing and others were repeated. If the software is complicated, the explanations cannot be completely textual (page manual), at least a video label like "Adobe Interface" is necessary, not a link to a long video that in the end does not talk about what you are looking for or having to wait three days for support to end up sending you the same old video or having to send a large file so they can understand where the problem comes from. Looking to learn the program well, I found the learning section of the 3DCoat website, I explored all the links in English, Spanish and Italian and I did not find a single study house that had the 3DCoat software in its curricula, in fact, none of them. You have offered these links, a North American or an Englishman would have sued you for this. In other posts I already told you about the bitter experience with the Discord group because I had to depend on the kindness of some self-taught people who responded in their own way and were offended by my worthy client opinions, so I was expelled from that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lizbot Posted March 4 Member Report Share Posted March 4 On 3/2/2024 at 1:44 AM, Boozer said: I would write a reply to Lizbot but a mod would never approve my content. Right Oleg, Carlos? Have a nice weekend Why say anything then? You can always PM me if you really want to moan, im not worried by rudeness or an opposing opinion. I still stand by what I said, the price for purchase and for updates for this program is very fair. Every program has bugs, even 7k USD to buy maya has some badword stuff happening. It costs almost the same price for substance designer, which doesnt even allow any mesh, sculpting. I am no pro, but i have used other programs this is by far the best value. SUre I have wasted time on some bugs, honestly half the time since i am not a pro, i can't tell what is a bug lol. @pieralessi Glad to hear you escaped communism, hope you didnt go to america, they are currently trying to install it there. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lizbot Posted March 4 Member Report Share Posted March 4 22 hours ago, pieralessi said: He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine Good God, Have some decency, Ukraine has lost so many people its very sad. Someone who escaped communism should be more understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, pieralessi said: I bought the 2022 but in the last conversations via email, it was explained to me that I could return to the 2022 but with the errors of that version. He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine and did not offer me a refund. I responded that you can't sell me a version with unresolved bug fixes from a previous version. It's like you buy a dealership car without a warranty. Some time ago, shortly after having bought the 2022 in an offer, I was offered an apparent update, nowhere did it talk about paying an amount for it and it was not understood as learning, in any case it would be a trial version, I realized Later, when I noticed it in some very small letters in the presentation of the program, I complained about this and it was explained to me via email that I had to pay $35, in addition to the fact that the 2023 was also full of bugs and both the manuals and official YouTube videos are barely demonstrative of some things and many of them from an old interface (for a new user these changes are very confusing). In this version of learning, many explanations of the icons were missing and others were repeated. If the software is complicated, the explanations cannot be completely textual (page manual), at least a video label like "Adobe Interface" is necessary, not a link to a long video that in the end does not talk about what you are looking for or having to wait three days for support to end up sending you the same old video or having to send a large file so they can understand where the problem comes from. Looking to learn the program well, I found the learning section of the 3DCoat website, I explored all the links in English, Spanish and Italian and I did not find a single study house that had the 3DCoat software in its curricula, in fact, none of them. You have offered these links, a North American or an Englishman would have sued you for this. In other posts I already told you about the bitter experience with the Discord group because I had to depend on the kindness of some self-taught people who responded in their own way and were offended by my worthy client opinions, so I was expelled from that group. One thing you omitted is the fact that you get a 30 free trial to assess if 3DCoat is worth purchasing or not. When you make a purchase, you are essentially confirming that it indeed is. Thus, if you subsequently find fault with the program, as a consumer, you should take responsibility for your purchasing decisions. I found myself in a similar situation with Camtasia 2023...whether it was worth my upgrading or not. I paid for the upgrade and later found a serious performance issue, but it was too late, then. Like ALL software companies, software sales are final. It is up to the customer...including me, to be sure that I use their trial period, to properly evaluate the software, FIRST. If I fail to do that, and then make the purchase, it is too late. All I can do is report the issues I found to support. That is how the world works. If you purchase a perpetual license of 3DCoat/Textura, you get 12 months of free updates, period. It doesn't matter if a new version came out shortly after you bought it. You get that new version automatically, because it falls within that 12 month period. So, Pilgway did not mislead or cheat you in any way, and therefore had no reason to provide a refund, to be frank and honest. I have to send bug reports from time to time to TechSmith for Camtasia, so no software is immune from bugs. If you experience a bug, report it. Andrew prioritizes bug-fixing over features and will stop what he is working on, to fix a reported bug. Edited March 4 by AbnRanger Added some additional information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 On 3/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, pieralessi said: I bought the 2022 but in the last conversations via email, it was explained to me that I could return to the 2022 but with the errors of that version. He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine and did not offer me a refund. I responded that you can't sell me a version with unresolved bug fixes from a previous version. It's like you buy a dealership car without a warranty. Some time ago, shortly after having bought the 2022 in an offer, I was offered an apparent update, nowhere did it talk about paying an amount for it and it was not understood as learning, in any case it would be a trial version, I realized Later, when I noticed it in some very small letters in the presentation of the program, I complained about this and it was explained to me via email that I had to pay $35, in addition to the fact that the 2023 was also full of bugs and both the manuals and official YouTube videos are barely demonstrative of some things and many of them from an old interface (for a new user these changes are very confusing). In this version of learning, many explanations of the icons were missing and others were repeated. If the software is complicated, the explanations cannot be completely textual (page manual), at least a video label like "Adobe Interface" is necessary, not a link to a long video that in the end does not talk about what you are looking for or having to wait three days for support to end up sending you the same old video or having to send a large file so they can understand where the problem comes from. Looking to learn the program well, I found the learning section of the 3DCoat website, I explored all the links in English, Spanish and Italian and I did not find a single study house that had the 3DCoat software in its curricula, in fact, none of them. You have offered these links, a North American or an Englishman would have sued you for this. In other posts I already told you about the bitter experience with the Discord group because I had to depend on the kindness of some self-taught people who responded in their own way and were offended by my worthy client opinions, so I was expelled from that group. Additionally, there are hundreds of tutorials on the 3DCoat Youtube Channel (they are separated into Playlists by Category), alone. 3DCoat - YouTube You can also do a search on the channel itself, by a tool name or task and see videos you may have never noticed, otherwise. There are hundreds of tools in 3DCoat and Pilgway is a small company, thus it is not possible to cover every tool with each new version. New tutorials are added for new features on an on-going basis. Nevertheless, up to date tutorials for every software title is most often covered by 3rd party resources. Blender is a great example. Most of the tutorials you see about it, online, is from 3rd party resources. Anton Tenitsky is a great 3rd party resource and has a ton of training videos on his channel as well as courses on Gumroad. Anton Tenitsky - YouTube There are too many resources to list hear, but two of the newest Introductory courses are: https://artstn.co/m/a7LNy This course is sometimes on sale (for as low as $12.99 USD), on Udemy, but the regular price is $69...so, you may want to check the website once in a while to see if it is back on sale, if you are interested: Complete Guide to 3D Coat | Udemy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 4 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 4 32 minutes ago, AbnRanger said: Additionally, there are hundreds of tutorials on the 3DCoat Youtube Channel (they are separated into Playlists by Category), alone. 3DCoat - YouTube You can also do a search on the channel itself, by a tool name or task and see videos you may have never noticed, otherwise. There are hundreds of tools in 3DCoat and Pilgway is a small company, thus it is not possible to cover every tool with each new version. New tutorials are added for new features on an on-going basis. Nevertheless, up to date tutorials for every software title is most often covered by 3rd party resources. Blender is a great example. Most of the tutorials you see about it, online, is from 3rd party resources. Anton Tenitsky is a great 3rd party resource and has a ton of training videos on his channel as well as courses on Gumroad. Anton Tenitsky - YouTube There are too many resources to list hear, but two of the newest Introductory courses are: https://artstn.co/m/a7LNy This course is sometimes on sale (for as low as $12.99 USD), on Udemy, but the regular price is $69...so, you may want to check the website once in a while to see if it is back on sale, if you are interested: Complete Guide to 3D Coat | Udemy You forgot that Blender is OPEN SOURCE, no matters how many I paid for 3DC, if you offer pears you shall to give pears, no the seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, pieralessi said: You forgot that Blender is OPEN SOURCE, no matters how many I paid for 3DC, if you offer pears you shall to give pears, no the seeds. It doesn't matter. I was merely using Blender as an example that ALL software has a more robust 3rd party pool of training resources, than what the company itself can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 4 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, AbnRanger said: It doesn't matter. I was merely using Blender as an example that ALL software has a more robust 3rd party pool of training resources, than what the company itself can provide. With Blender as an example you are proving me right. 44 minutes ago, AbnRanger said: Additionally, there are hundreds of tutorials on the 3DCoat Youtube Channel (they are separated into Playlists by Category), alone. 3DCoat - YouTube You can also do a search on the channel itself, by a tool name or task and see videos you may have never noticed, otherwise. There are hundreds of tools in 3DCoat and Pilgway is a small company, thus it is not possible to cover every tool with each new version. New tutorials are added for new features on an on-going basis. Nevertheless, up to date tutorials for every software title is most often covered by 3rd party resources. Blender is a great example. Most of the tutorials you see about it, online, is from 3rd party resources. Anton Tenitsky is a great 3rd party resource and has a ton of training videos on his channel as well as courses on Gumroad. Anton Tenitsky - YouTube There are too many resources to list hear, but two of the newest Introductory courses are: https://artstn.co/m/a7LNy This course is sometimes on sale (for as low as $12.99 USD), on Udemy, but the regular price is $69...so, you may want to check the website once in a while to see if it is back on sale, if you are interested: Complete Guide to 3D Coat | Udemy You forgot that Blender is OPEN SOURCE, no matters how many I paid for 3DC, if you offer pears you shall to give pears, no the seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 4 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 4 With Blender as an example you are proving me right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 20 minutes ago, pieralessi said: With Blender as an example you are proving me right. You are missing the point. There is a broader pool of training content for Blender, Maya, 3ds Max, Modo, C4D, ZBrush, Substance, etc. from 3RD PARTY RESOURCES. Blender foundation gets DONATIONS to continue it's development...from the community and also from larger corporations. That business model is not one that can work for most software applications. Furthermore, whether Blender is opensource or not, is not relevant to this discussion. You have asserted that Pilgway has somehow cheated you and is not providing training content to your personal standards, despite the fact that there are hundreds of tutorials on their Youtube Channel. Painting tool tutorials are in the PAINT tools playlist. Sculpting tools videos are in the Sculpting tools playlist, and so on. If you want to know more about a given subject or task, search in the playlist associated with it. You can also look to 3rd party resources. Have you looked through the playlists on Anton Tenitsky's Youtube Channel? There are scores and scores of 3DCoat tutorials there, plus he is a partner of Pilgway in this area. Here is another good 3rd party resource: 3D Coat for Concept Art Tutorial - Voxel Sculpting (youtube.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 4 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, AbnRanger said: You are missing the point. There is a broader pool of training content for Blender, Maya, 3ds Max, Modo, C4D, ZBrush, Substance, etc. from 3RD PARTY RESOURCES. Blender foundation gets DONATIONS to continue it's development...from the community and also from larger corporations. That business model is not one that can work for most software applications. Furthermore, whether Blender is opensource or not, is not relevant to this discussion. You have asserted that Pilgway has somehow cheated you and is not providing training content to your personal standards, despite the fact that there are hundreds of tutorials on their Youtube Channel. Painting tool tutorials are in the PAINT tools playlist. Sculpting tools videos are in the Sculpting tools playlist, and so on. If you want to know more about a given subject or task, search in the playlist associated with it. You can also look to 3rd party resources. Have you looked through the playlists on Anton Tenitsky's Youtube Channel? There are scores and scores of 3DCoat tutorials there, plus he is a partner of Pilgway in this area. Here is another good 3rd party resource: 3D Coat for Concept Art Tutorial - Voxel Sculpting (youtube.com) Have you used the surface modeling tools with splines? You continue to agree with me, you are not going to complain to Blender for any lack in the program and in the learning for known reasons. 3DCost is paid, it is true that it is economical but if from that abundance of tools it is not possible to master the ones that interest you, why can't I complain. YouTube videos and courses are limited to sculpture for video game and concept art purposes, I bought it because it promises to have tools for industrial design but it doesn't, you can't place more than three reference images when four are needed for the tools modeling with surfaces and splines there is very little and not very good documentation, the little that there is on this topic is very generic and is not in English, if you offer "complete" software make sure it is "complete" and does not make the user suffer to understand if the tool works or you haven't guessed through trial and error how it should work. Was it clear to you? https://3dcoat.com/academic-program/ Have you done some course from here? Edited March 4 by pieralessi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 18 hours ago, pieralessi said: Have you used the modeling tools with splines? What about it? I was addressing your comments about Pilgway allegedly misleading/cheating you, somehow. If you don't like how something functions, contact support (support@pilgway.com) and try to make it easy and clear what your problems are with it, as it helps them diagnose and understand the important details of the problem more quickly. Maybe a screen recording or at least a screen grab + detailed explanation how to reproduce it. The following is a link to a series that covers at least one of the new spline-based modeling tools, among some other newer modeling tools. EDIT: The developer of the Retopo/Modeling tools has a number of videos, demonstrating many if not most of his tools. They are in Russian, but you can play subtitles in your preferred language on the Youtube videos (click the Gear icon > Subtitles > Auto-Translate > select your preferred language. There will probably be some more English video tutorials about the Modeling tools, soon. 3DCoat Modeling tool "Unify of Surfaces" (youtube.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted March 4 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 4 Concerning bugs in Software. Below are just examples 3DMax. Subscription--- $1.875 per year, $235 per month. 3ds Max 2022 Fixed Known Issues. 30 bugs fixed in one of the corrective updates. Generally, they have a few corrective updates through the year. Blender. Free 4.02 . 41 bugs fixed in the 4.02 corrective update. Maya . $1.875 per year, $235 per month. Maya 2023 Over 100 bugs fixed in the one of the corrective updates. Generally, they have a few corrective updates through the year. ZBrush. $359 per year. ZBrush 2024.0.1 - December 13, 2023 17 bugs fixed. The above is to make a point all software have bugs. N0 one like bugs and they can stop workflow at times but to single out 3DCoat is unfair in my opinion. What about Maya, Max, Zbrush and Blender, should I stop using them also. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 6 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 6 On 3/4/2024 at 7:02 PM, digman said: Concerning bugs in Software. Below are just examples 3DMax. Subscription--- $1.875 per year, $235 per month. 3ds Max 2022 Fixed Known Issues. 30 bugs fixed in one of the corrective updates. Generally, they have a few corrective updates through the year. Blender. Free 4.02 . 41 bugs fixed in the 4.02 corrective update. Maya . $1.875 per year, $235 per month. Maya 2023 Over 100 bugs fixed in the one of the corrective updates. Generally, they have a few corrective updates through the year. ZBrush. $359 per year. ZBrush 2024.0.1 - December 13, 2023 17 bugs fixed. The above is to make a point all software have bugs. N0 one like bugs and they can stop workflow at times but to single out 3DCoat is unfair in my opinion. What about Maya, Max, Zbrush and Blender, should I stop using them also. In order for me to understand where the mistakes are in the modeling, I must know the tools well with well-explained examples and not with videos of different versions with poorly translated subtitles, without underestimating the effort of Александр Горбатовский who is the only one who has made an effort to explain and recognized in response to a request that does not explain in English nor do you show the shortcuts, very important, apart from the fact that the videos do not explain the tools in depth. I have not been contacting support since yesterday, I have been doing this for more than a year, I bought the 2022 and the updates I received were from the 2023 (learning version), that is, they are to be used as a teacher and not to market projects, I had to pay for the difference to update to 2023 and without support for 2022. Don't include Blender in this, it is open source and I have no obligation to donate, so to complain to them the logical thing is that I make large donations, for this I decided to buy 3DCoat, observing opinions, I have noticed that very few have used it thinking about autopo and texturing but they do not talk about modeling or sculpting and prefer another program. It is useless for you to make a list of software with errors, those who "paid that sum" have the bug resolved as quickly as possible and an extensive range of courses certified by the software house such as: Autodesk. I took a course on Udemy and the instructor did not respond to the problems to know if it was my understanding, the explanation or a software bug. Self-taught? no Please. On 3/3/2024 at 9:57 AM, Carlosan said: @pieralessi I already apologized at the time for my confusion, I understood that you were using the learning version, not what you had purchased. Did you get the refund you requested at sales@3dcoat.com? I bought the 2022 but in the last conversations via email, it was explained to me that I could return to the 2022 but with the errors of that version. He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine and did not offer me a refund. I responded that you can't sell me a version with unresolved bug fixes from a previous version. It's like you buy a dealership car without a warranty. Some time ago, shortly after having bought the 2022 in an offer, I was offered an apparent update, nowhere did it talk about paying an amount for it and it was not understood as learning, in any case it would be a trial version, I realized Later, when I noticed it in some very small letters in the presentation of the program, I complained about this and it was explained to me via email that I had to pay $35, in addition to the fact that the 2023 was also full of bugs and both the manuals and official YouTube videos are barely demonstrative of some things and many of them from an old interface (for a new user these changes are very confusing). In this version of learning, many explanations of the icons were missing and others were repeated. If the software is complicated, the explanations cannot be completely textual (page manual), at least a video label like "Adobe Interface" is necessary, not a link to a long video that in the end does not talk about what you are looking for or having to wait three days for support to end up sending you the same old video or having to send a large file so they can understand where the problem comes from. Looking to learn the program well, I found the learning section of the 3DCoat website, I explored all the links in English, Spanish and Italian and I did not find a single study house that had the 3DCoat software in its curricula, in fact, none of them. You have offered these links, a North American or an Englishman would have sued you for this. In other posts I already told you about the bitter experience with the Discord group because I had to depend on the kindness of some self-taught people who responded in their own way and were offended by my worthy client opinions, so I was expelled from that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 6 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, pieralessi said: In order for me to understand where the mistakes are in the modeling, I must know the tools well with well-explained examples and not with videos of different versions with poorly translated subtitles, without underestimating the effort of Александр Горбатовский who is the only one who has made an effort to explain and recognized in response to a request that does not explain in English nor do you show the shortcuts, very important, apart from the fact that the videos do not explain the tools in depth. I have not been contacting support since yesterday, I have been doing this for more than a year, I bought the 2022 and the updates I received were from the 2023 (learning version), that is, they are to be used as a teacher and not to market projects, I had to pay for the difference to update to 2023 and without support for 2022. Don't include Blender in this, it is open source and I have no obligation to donate, so to complain to them the logical thing is that I make large donations, for this I decided to buy 3DCoat, observing opinions, I have noticed that very few have used it thinking about autopo and texturing but they do not talk about modeling or sculpting and prefer another program. It is useless for you to make a list of software with errors, those who "paid that sum" have the bug resolved as quickly as possible and an extensive range of courses certified by the software house such as: Autodesk. I took a course on Udemy and the instructor did not respond to the problems to know if it was my understanding, the explanation or a software bug. Self-taught? no Please. I bought the 2022 but in the last conversations via email, it was explained to me that I could return to the 2022 but with the errors of that version. He made excuses for the problems in Ukraine and did not offer me a refund. I responded that you can't sell me a version with unresolved bug fixes from a previous version. It's like you buy a dealership car without a warranty. Some time ago, shortly after having bought the 2022 in an offer, I was offered an apparent update, nowhere did it talk about paying an amount for it and it was not understood as learning, in any case it would be a trial version, I realized Later, when I noticed it in some very small letters in the presentation of the program, I complained about this and it was explained to me via email that I had to pay $35, in addition to the fact that the 2023 was also full of bugs and both the manuals and official YouTube videos are barely demonstrative of some things and many of them from an old interface (for a new user these changes are very confusing). In this version of learning, many explanations of the icons were missing and others were repeated. If the software is complicated, the explanations cannot be completely textual (page manual), at least a video label like "Adobe Interface" is necessary, not a link to a long video that in the end does not talk about what you are looking for or having to wait three days for support to end up sending you the same old video or having to send a large file so they can understand where the problem comes from. Looking to learn the program well, I found the learning section of the 3DCoat website, I explored all the links in English, Spanish and Italian and I did not find a single study house that had the 3DCoat software in its curricula, in fact, none of them. You have offered these links, a North American or an Englishman would have sued you for this. In other posts I already told you about the bitter experience with the Discord group because I had to depend on the kindness of some self-taught people who responded in their own way and were offended by my worthy client opinions, so I was expelled from that group. It's very simple. When you buy a (perpetual) license, you get not only the latest version available (to download) at the time of purchase, but 12 months of free updates. After that 12 months expires, you cannot expect the company to issue you a refund because you found a bug. My latest paid update to Modo is v12. They are now on 17. I cannot use 12 today and complain to the Foundry that I found a bug in v12 and thus they owe me a free copy of the current version (17). That is absurd. I can point to other applications (Camtasia, ZBrush, etc.) and make the same claim, but they will politely tell me that support for past versions lasts only as long as the stated length of free updates. On ZBrush 2022, if I find an issue today and contact Pixologic, they will tell me to upgrade to their latest version because I am no longer entitled to free updates. Pilgway has not misled or cheated you. They are good people and would not cheat anyone, even if they legally could. And regarding the Academic programs listed, I am not sure what your point is, exactly, but why would or could someone from North America sue Pilgway, when Pilgway only lists the institutions that have SENT THEM EDUCATION LICENSE REQUESTS? They don't have to list 3DCoat (or any other software) on their curriculum, for it to used in any given 3D course. As an example, look at the Art Department page (under Game Art/Animation) for California State-Fullerton, here: Bachelor of Fine Arts in Art - Department of Visual Arts | CSUF (fullerton.edu) It doesn't mention ANY specific software. So, how does Pilgway know that 3DCoat is taught there? Because an instructor from that institution sent them an official request for multiple education licenses. Again, you have accused the good folks at Pilgway of lying/misleading and cheating you. They wouldn't and haven't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 8 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 6:10 PM, AbnRanger said: It's very simple. When you buy a (perpetual) license, you get not only the latest version available (to download) at the time of purchase, but 12 months of free updates. After that 12 months expires, you cannot expect the company to issue you a refund because you found a bug. My latest paid update to Modo is v12. They are now on 17. I cannot use 12 today and complain to the Foundry that I found a bug in v12 and thus they owe me a free copy of the current version (17). That is absurd. I can point to other applications (Camtasia, ZBrush, etc.) and make the same claim, but they will politely tell me that support for past versions lasts only as long as the stated length of free updates. On ZBrush 2022, if I find an issue today and contact Pixologic, they will tell me to upgrade to their latest version because I am no longer entitled to free updates. Pilgway has not misled or cheated you. They are good people and would not cheat anyone, even if they legally could. And regarding the Academic programs listed, I am not sure what your point is, exactly, but why would or could someone from North America sue Pilgway, when Pilgway only lists the institutions that have SENT THEM EDUCATION LICENSE REQUESTS? They don't have to list 3DCoat (or any other software) on their curriculum, for it to used in any given 3D course. As an example, look at the Art Department page (under Game Art/Animation) for California State-Fullerton, here: Bachelor of Fine Arts in Art - Department of Visual Arts | CSUF (fullerton.edu) It doesn't mention ANY specific software. So, how does Pilgway know that 3DCoat is taught there? Because an instructor from that institution sent them an official request for multiple education licenses. Again, you have accused the good folks at Pilgway of lying/misleading and cheating you. They wouldn't and haven't. Estás mal interpretando mis argumentos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pieralessi Posted March 8 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) What's the point of updating if it doesn't solve what I'm complaining about at a certain time, I'm not trying to get things for free. Learning programs are supposed to find courses where the program is taught well. I checked many pages and couldn't find these training programs. . Edited March 8 by pieralessi Specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Elemeno Posted March 8 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 8 guys ... what is happening? these guys work so hard updating , and fixing bugs ... they are trying to add as many features as possible , buying the upgrade not only give you the updated version, but it gives you a year of free updates and the money given helps these guys keep developing and keep them above the ever increasing price of living .. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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