Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted April 26, 2016 Reputable Contributor Share Posted April 26, 2016 While I greatly admire the underlying programming skill I have to admit that I quite doubt the technical value of the sketch based topo shown in those clips... Does it really make sense to follow the template volume that closely for creation of the initial patch? I found greatly more attractive to see loser tessellation in those patches and the main focus on proper loop structure in adjacent patches and on avoiding poles (extraordinary points) if somehow possible. A closer fit could get obtained by subdividing and reprojecting the cage in a later step. If one rather wants to display a closely matching remesh result in realtime, one might consider dynamic reprojected (shrinkwrapped) catmull clark subdivision built into the tool. I see some really promising potential with the Quad Paint, but have to admit I'm not a fan of the way it usually results in all those nasty terminations, rather than looking FIRST for a clean bridge between parallel strokes. There should, by default, be a forced point order between strokes/lines. For example...if I were drawing 2 loops around the eye socket, there should be a clean bridge of polys between them...not 80% clean with some unnecessary termination on one end. I hate that (when it occurs in Auto-Retopo), cause it's counterproductive. Rather than making the task run more smoothly and efficient, it forces the user to do more work than if they used something like the Strokes tool. Clean topology is what we need....not just a random patch of polygons that force me to fix the topology afterward. This tool could be useful when dealing with an irregular shape, but I still prefer the way the Blender "RetopoFlow" addon works. No need to get more fancy than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted April 27, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 Allthough i agree , i believe DIRECT mode gives the clean patch we all want. AWESOME WORK cant wait to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor TimmyZDesign Posted April 27, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 Thanks Farsthary! This looks like it could be good! I like how the user can delete points and it recalculates the mesh instantly. This used in combination with the new QuadStrips, RFill, and the other existing tools could probably add up to some major time-saving! I'm hoping that it will end up being more efficient to work with this instead of messing with the fully automatic retopo routine. I can't wait to try it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted April 27, 2016 Reputable Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 Allthough i agree , i believe DIRECT mode gives the clean patch we all want. AWESOME WORK cant wait to use it. Yeah, after watching a 2nd time, the DIRECT method looks like it could be legit. Should be the default, no? That is what most artists will want/expect from such a tool. I didn't mean to be so negative in the previous post, but needed to express how frustrating it can be for users to work with a tool that, on the surface, looks so promising, like Auto-Retopo...but prove to be a headache to use half the time. When trying to Auto-Retopologize a head, for example, it can take HOURS trying different methods, including more strokes > fewer strokes > re-enforcing strokes (around the eye socket for example) and still find no satisfactory result. At which point, you realize you wasted hours doing what otherwise would have only taken you 10-15mins if you had just used the Strokes tool from the start. I just don't want to see this tool left unpolished the way Auto-Retopo seemed to be. Maybe the DIRECT method is the Real Deal. I sure hope so. Great work, thus far, Raul. Please keep it up...you're almost there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Yes, the DIRECT method is the "loose" retopology you are talking about, is nice and clean, ZERO poles, at the expense of giving up some control, like polyxo and AbnRanger said. I should probably demonstrate it more. The purpose of the HYBRID method is that the patch shape dictates the polygon flow and there lies the control, you don't need HOURS to came up here with nice results, just minutes, yes, sometimes you need to tweak afterwards, but those are minor tweaks. You can experiment , go back and forth and for artist you will master the tool very quickly. This is a semi-automatic retopology tool, it means you will still have to work for what you want, is not a button do-it-all-for-me. Eventually I could work in a fully automatic method, either improving Autopo or extending it with these algorithm but for now I'm here. In those clips I showed careless patching, for demostration purposses. A real artist who wants to control the polygon flow better will come up with better patches. Direct: patches loosely controls quad flow, No poles Hybrid: patches strongly controls the flow, some poles but more natural flow according to the parch shape. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted April 27, 2016 Advanced Member Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Will it work with the different E panel brushes like lasso, circle and rectangle marquee? Also, with hybrid, can we create an eye or mouth of concentric loops with 1 stroke? If not, perhaps a LOOPS mode. Will it work on limbs to create a cylindrical patch of polygons?(I don't see why not, but I haven't seen it demonstrated.) Those are the questions I'm wondering. But it really is looking great! Edited April 27, 2016 by gbball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 @gball with hybrid you can create loop like but not using concentric loops, using 1 loop cut in half by one stroke, quads will follow the outer loop. A quick test using only DIRECT, it require more tweaking than hybrid though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Loops 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted April 27, 2016 Advanced Member Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Very nice. I know it's asking your for more work, but any way it could work with 1 stroke? Or with e panel ellipse/rectangle? How does it work btw? Does it work based on arc or angle of strokes to determine where there should be a loop vs a corner? Or do intersecting lines create corners? Maybe if there was a LOOPS mode, the user would have more control over the initial type of quad layout that they'd get. Like if you drew a square using 2 sets of parallel strokes using the existing stroking method or with the e-panel rectangle (ideally) you could still get concentric loops if that was the chosen algorithm. LOOPS mode could have a second parameter which would ask for a capping method (quad,triangles,ngon...etc.) Just an idea. Not trying to give you tons of extra work if it doesn't add that much outside of what's already there. But if it's easy, then why not. Edited April 27, 2016 by gbball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Currently it doesn't work with selection shapes. You have to stroke them. Is interesting what you propose but other than the initial patch I don't see many uses for it. As you start filling the mesh you dont have many choices to create perfect ellipses, rectangles, etc. You just draw what you need according to the remaining surface and the boundary of existing mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Also for spline like patches will come QuadStrips. The outer contour will be defined with easier to control splines and the inside will be filled with this providing even better quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I guess you guys aren't using the default theme? Because that green font is impossible to read. Nope, I am not. You can change the theme at the bottom left of the forum. Little link there says "Change Theme". You can go back to the old Gry/Grn theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Currently it doesn't work with selection shapes. You have to stroke them. Is interesting what you propose but other than the initial patch I don't see many uses for it. As you start filling the mesh you dont have many choices to create perfect ellipses, rectangles, etc. You just draw what you need according to the remaining surface and the boundary of existing mesh. It would be great to eventually have this implemented, as gbball describes. It makes sense to me as well. I personally believe that it would be good to get these tools as they are out the door, so to speak, then we can start using them in real world production environments so you can get better feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Soon will commit latest changes so Andrew can release it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted April 27, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Thanks you all for being there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Thanks Raul. Looking forward to trying it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted April 27, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Great work Raul. I'm interested in two things. With the semi-automated retopology that you are working on now, will it be possible to draw main poly loops, lock them (= prevent their vertices from moving on relax and similar operations), fill geometry between those loops and relax the fill geometry without altering those locked main loops? Then, in case some corrections are needed during the iteration process - tweak the main poly loops and relax the fill geometry again? The second question I have is that will altering the number of spans of main poly loops propagate to fill geometry? Edited April 27, 2016 by ajz3d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 @ajz3d inner strokes are not frozen , they can be smoothed a little, but it is not difficult to give the option to fix them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted April 27, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 27, 2016 By inner strokes do you mean the fill geometry? The reason I asked my question is that I usually first create those main loops - encompassing eye sockets, lips, mouth, arms, etc. and I position their vertices precisely where I want them to remain. Then I create the geometry that is in-between them - and this is why I call that geo a "fill" geometry. I'd like to be able to relax this fill geometry without altering point positions of my main loops. In an optimistic case, press a certain button several times, just like we can press a relax tool, and see this fill geometry being relaxed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 may be to solve this feature request could help ? 0000341: UV Tool: Pin Selected/Unselected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Member ozRocker Posted April 28, 2016 New Member Share Posted April 28, 2016 Soon will commit latest changes so Andrew can release it Well will the new version of 3D Coat with this retopo tool be released to the public? I plan on buying 3D Coat for this tool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Well will the new version of 3D Coat with this retopo tool be released to the public? I plan on buying 3D Coat for this tool. It will be released to the public build with in a build or two (which is the usual case), but keep in mind it is a beta feature with in a beta build. This is all dependent upon Andrew approving everything, so a grain of salt is needed with any timelines, etc.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted April 28, 2016 Contributor Share Posted April 28, 2016 Buy it , you will never regret it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Eye socket test 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted April 28, 2016 Advanced Member Share Posted April 28, 2016 This looks like not an ideal result. I know you're testing still, but maybe you can try something like this and see how easy/difficult it is to create something precise like this for facial animation purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 Thanks. They eye socket test was a quick sketch to show the looping. Can somebody sent me a head model to test on my own? My modeling skills have grown rot over time :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted April 28, 2016 Advanced Member Share Posted April 28, 2016 Sent you a couple heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Thanks Gavin. This weekend will play with those models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Thanks to Gavin models is more fun to test QuadPaint 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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