Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 15, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 15, 2012 Try hitting legacy fix in the voxel menu, I think this is another special case of mesh holes/explosion. If I remember right sometimes cloning created a smaller version of the original mesh inside the new clone resulting in unsupported geo and holes/tears/explosions. Check with "w" to see if there's something in your mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Updated to 3.7.18E only to fix critical problems: - ctrl+shift was not working in cutoff tool - left panel was disappearing in some cases - several other from mantis This update does not include very recent Raul & my changes, they will ba available in next update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 Try hitting legacy fix in the voxel menu, I think this is another special case of mesh holes/explosion. If I remember right sometimes cloning created a smaller version of the original mesh inside the new clone resulting in unsupported geo and holes/tears/explosions. Check with "w" to see if there's something in your mesh. No go, I tried the legacy and the Clean surface, the close holes and the Clean up memory, nothing works. In wire frame there are many fragments within the mesh after the clone creation, I cannot get rid of them, they look like they are not attached to the original mesh but they are stuck to it. Any idea how to clone a sculpt without these excess fragments of geometry? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Speaking of bugs, does anyone have the problem when making a clone (with symmetry), of your surface sculpt and trying to work on the clone, I keep getting the mesh breaking apart with any brush I try, even when smoothing. I will check it, but it could be good to drop it to mantis to avoid forgetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 15, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 15, 2012 He's done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Yes, now I remember - yes, I seen it but postponed until next build. It will be fixed or at least deeply discovered before next build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 this is going better and better ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 15, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 15, 2012 No go, I tried the legacy and the Clean surface, the close holes and the Clean up memory, nothing works. In wire frame there are many fragments within the mesh after the clone creation, I cannot get rid of them, they look like they are not attached to the original mesh but they are stuck to it. Any idea how to clone a sculpt without these excess fragments of geometry? T. This is the issue, this is also what trigger regular tears/holes/explosion without the cloning step. This can also happen with "superpoles" ( a lot of edges sharing one vertex) with liveclay meshes. As far as I know there's no solution. The only thing that works is returning back to voxel, fixing the holes/extrusion and going back to surface (if you need to), losing all the details in the process :/ The solution would be to be able to fill meshes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stevecullum Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hi Steve! Let us know how it goes. Thanks! Sadly not been able to resolve my issue. I think there is a problem with my computer though as I can download it fine on my laptop. I find it very odd it block only downloads from 3dcoat though - everything else is fine. Suspecting some issue with the firewall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted September 15, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 15, 2012 With Norton one is prompted (due to newness of app) but it is not blocked if user wants to proceed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stevecullum Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 With Norton one is prompted (due to newness of app) but it is not blocked if user wants to proceed, Wasn't the firewall. I disabled that and there were still issues. I did manage to download the latest beta in the finish, by cancelling and re-starting the download about 30 times. I used TCP view to examin the exact download rate and it was 150bytes a sec and each time I cancelled and restarted, it would increase by a few more until it reached a more respectable 800k/B per sec. Very peculiar behavior! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 ok, fixed clone with symmetry issue. Build will be available soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Updated to 3.7.18F. The reson is that left panel disappearing was not completely fixed, also I fixed problem of clone mentioned by Tser. I am trying to make as stable as possible last 3.7 build before posting first V4 beta. If all is OK with this build, Mac&Linus builds will be done very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 15, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 15, 2012 Is this the potential last 3x beta ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 I have gone over all my saved incremental s since I converted from Voxels to Surface to add more detail for the creation of ears and every sculpt contains these very small fragments of geometry randomly distributed around the surface mesh. It appears that these random, fragments of geometry only appeared after I started using the LC tools. So, its not the Clone which caused the problem, the Clone process only brought the problem out, the problem was caused by the LC tools on the original sculpt. This MUST be fixed or else the LC tools will not be able to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 As BeatKitano pointed out, the only way I could go on with the sculpt was to convert it back to Voxels with a resolution of 50 000 000 to get the same detail as I had with the Surface mode and then use the Smooth all and smooth brush to get rid of the surface marks left by the random mesh fragments. This took quite a while to do. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Polygoon Posted September 15, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 15, 2012 Wasn't the firewall. I disabled that and there were still issues. I did manage to download the latest beta in the finish, by cancelling and re-starting the download about 30 times. I used TCP view to examin the exact download rate and it was 150bytes a sec and each time I cancelled and restarted, it would increase by a few more until it reached a more respectable 800k/B per sec. Very peculiar behavior! I have had this problem before. I think from memory, it was the modem. Try switching it off, unplugging everything and leaving for about 30 secs. There may be a reset button somewhere also. Hook every thing back up and switch/ reset it back on. Worked for me. Don't know why it happened. Perhaps it accumulated a static charge or something. Other than that you may need to contact you internet provider and get them to check everything is right their end. BTW 800kb/sec, I don't think I have ever had that fast. 150kb/sec is quite good where I am. Also do you use a download manager with your browser? This can also help. Explorer and Firefox have them, not sure about others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 free download manager http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 16, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 As BeatKitano pointed out, the only way I could go on with the sculpt was to convert it back to Voxels with a resolution of 50 000 000 to get the same detail as I had with the Surface mode and then use the Smooth all and smooth brush to get rid of the surface marks left by the random mesh fragments. This took quite a while to do. T. I feel your pain. I don't encounter much those bugs but then again I chose to use a very limited toolset of liveclay brushes. With only buildclay, liveclay and decimate I don't see those. I think some liveclay brushes create these situation: wrinkleclay/creaseclay (i think it's the superpole problem: too many poly cramped in very tight space creating unsupported geo) and possibly others. Take Artman presets for a spin, he has the same problems, we discussed many times about those issues and he created a custom preset list that contains only "safe" brushes. This really needs to be fixed unfortunately it's extremely hard to detect when it starts corrupting the mesh, it's only a lot of strokes later that the nightmare is visible... when it's wayyy to late to catch the culprit. Raul created legacy fix after I submitted a mesh affected by those issues, he thought it would solve the issue unfortunately he only saw a particular occurence of the bug where it would work, but there's tons of other cases more severe that can't be fixed by that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Is this the potential last 3x beta ? Next builds with essential changes will be marked as V4 beta. This build [may be] will go to regular downloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have gone over all my saved incremental s since I converted from Voxels to Surface to add more detail for the creation of ears and every sculpt contains these very small fragments of geometry randomly distributed around the surface mesh. It appears that these random, fragments of geometry only appeared after I started using the LC tools. So, its not the Clone which caused the problem, the Clone process only brought the problem out, the problem was caused by the LC tools on the original sculpt. This MUST be fixed or else the LC tools will not be able to be used. Could be good to get mesh to analyse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 16, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ok. I just REALLY hope that for v4 you start beta testing, part by part, the software with a small group of users for usability. Because to be honest 3.x is still unfinished in the vox/brushes area. I fear v4 cycle goes as v3 and those unfinished parts are just left as is. I voiced my concerns, I don't want to start a debate, I'll just pray. Tnx for your work. (I'll start a "what doesn't feel right" list for the brushes, so that I'm not only in the negative thinking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ok. I just REALLY hope that for v4 you start beta testing, part by part, the software with a small group of users for usability. Because to be honest 3.x is still unfinished in the vox/brushes area. I fear v4 cycle goes as v3 and those unfinished parts are just left as is. I voiced my concerns, I don't want to start a debate, I'll just pray. Tnx for your work. (I'll start a "what doesn't feel right" list for the brushes, so that I'm not only in the negative thinking) If you feei it unfinished, just point me to the list of problems, may be I missed something important. But 3DC can never be called "finished" as there is always big potential to grow or improve. But I tried to fix what can be called bugs at least what is not related to LC. LC stabilisation will be performed in V4 testing cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 16, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 Here's a first draft, I'll add things as I work and recall other thing I didn't think about at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 16, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 16, 2012 I found that when the fragmented geometry manifested that I could get back to a stable mesh by: 1, Using the Voxel -> Decimation to reduce the overall poly count. 2, Using the surface Smooth brush at a strength of "1" to "dissolve" the fragments away to nothing, (this was time consuming). 3, Then use the TSmooth brush to create a more organized mesh. By the way, its very annoying to keep holding the "W" key down just to see the mesh, Andrew is there a way you can implement a toggle to keep the mesh visible? or did I just miss it? maybe have the View -> Wireframe option could be made to show the mesh in the Voxel room. T. T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stevecullum Posted September 16, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have had this problem before. I think from memory, it was the modem. Try switching it off, unplugging everything and leaving for about 30 secs. There may be a reset button somewhere also. Hook every thing back up and switch/ reset it back on. Worked for me. Don't know why it happened. Perhaps it accumulated a static charge or something. Other than that you may need to contact you internet provider and get them to check everything is right their end. BTW 800kb/sec, I don't think I have ever had that fast. 150kb/sec is quite good where I am. Also do you use a download manager with your browser? This can also help. Explorer and Firefox have them, not sure about others. I tried re-starting the modem and that didn't change anything. The crazy thing is, I have had no issue with any other download. Sadly I'm not a network specialist, so diagnosing the exact cause is difficult. At least I know if I persevere I eventually get the download to work. The download speeds in the UK are pretty good generally - I have 30MB fiber optic connection which helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 16, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 Lots of dns madness these days, GoDaddy lately and before that Cogent. Maybe some are still affected by bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted September 16, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 Big issue in latest beta, shortcuts broken. They appear to be correctly assigned judging from tooltip, except they call whatever.... This only happens on stacked shortcut, solo shortcuts are working as expected. I've the feeling naming in page<id> got changed. Calling "E", then "F": Got back to 3.7.18C and it works ok. 3.7.18F is broken somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 16, 2012 Reputable Contributor Share Posted September 16, 2012 @ BeatKitano. I can confirm this bug... When I select my preset brush, it highlights the wrong brush in the side bar tool panel and not the brush it was based off of. Now on my end the preset brush is still correct and brushes correctly with my settings but the the highlighting is incorrect... Linux version 3.7.18C non-cuda 64 bit @Tser I also found fragments of surface mode mesh can be produce when you use some surface mode brushes to crave away at the surface mesh. It seems to happen to some surface mode brushes and not others... They can be very tiny and hard to see. Maybe we need a routine that will get rid of detach fragments. I have not filed a bug report and my own created brushes to not leave fragments when I crave away at the mesh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 16, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 16, 2012 @digman Yep, it seems that the generation of these fragments are the problem, once these are prevented from forming then the LC tools will be truly great. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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