Member Gravin Posted September 4, 2012 Member Share Posted September 4, 2012 I have no worries that Andrew will be more then fair when it comes time to move on to version 4. I can see why some might pick this apart and feel the need to complain that he wasn't as clear as he should have been about how the beta features were only going to be available for a limited time but I don't think it's fair to expect anything more then the bug fixes from the 3.7xx cycle. He is running a business here and unlike many developers with limited resources he really does a lot to keep us happy and updated on development progress. My main concern with the possibility that he may go back and change this policy now that some of us have made an argument against it is that it may result in a steeper upgrade cost for everyone so he can try to minimize any financial lose caused by fewer users upgrading. If this is the case I would like to make the argument that if all the beta features remain as they are in the 3.7xx release cycle and the cost of upgrading does need to increase as a result that there should be a promotional sale for users who opt to upgrade before or at release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted September 4, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 4, 2012 The renaissance for 3DCoat will be in the V4 cycle - having unfinished beta implementation in the 3 cycle will not deter anyone upgrading save those that are already content to use it for what it presently does very well right now within their workflow I can only speak for myself but I only purchased 3D Coat for it's UV mapping and Painting tools, the whole sculpting thing and all it's associated tools were just a tangent to me, interesting but never going to be used as I'm a mesh modeller and 3D Coat was the perfect mapping and painting tool for my requirements. As long as the UV Mapping and Painting tools are stable and work as expected then I'm a happy bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member BurrMan Posted September 4, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 4, 2012 He did spend a lot of time trying to release a stable 3.7 official release, and therefore doesn't "owe" anyone of us a stable 3.7.18+ release. Why? Because everything since then (3.7.0) has effectively been a V4 Pre-Release. Should have been labeled as such, but it is what it is. Thats the kicker. All the bug squashing currently is beta tools and regression from adding beta tools. I guess it was clear to me that I was loading a beta, but I seem to be alone (or a small island) in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 5, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have given this some more thought and have come to the conclusion that the best way to tackle the problem is to have two versions of 3DCoat, a Standard version 4 which is minus the "beta tools" and a Pro version 4 which includes all the "beta tools", in this way current 3.7x users will be able to use the Standard version 4 without extra cost and will not be pressured into an upgrade just to get bug fixes. If you need the extra features of the Pro version then you will have to pay extra to unlock those features. This way, Andrew will still be working and developing on only one version and both the Standard and Pro versions will be improved together. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 5, 2012 Reputable Contributor Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have given this some more thought and have come to the conclusion that the best way to tackle the problem is to have two versions of 3DCoat, a Standard version 4 which is minus the "beta tools" and a Pro version 4 which includes all the "beta tools", in this way current 3.7x users will be able to use the Standard version 4 without extra cost and will not be pressured into an upgrade just to get bug fixes. If you need the extra features of the Pro version then you will have to pay extra to unlock those features. This way, Andrew will still be working and developing on only one version and both the Standard and Pro versions will be improved together. T. I don't think there is any need for that. After further deliberation, perhaps Andrew should just proceed as he had planned. Sure it should have been communicated better that the "Beta Tools" were V4 and would be time limited...but it is what it is. Version 3 had a nice long ride and actually got off the bus with the official 3.7 release.He doesn't owe anyone a stable 3.7.18+ version...as everything since that (official release) has been a V4 Beta candidate. Although it should have been labeled as such, I can't complain about not getting a final stable build on what is a Beta Pre-Release. We get/got to test much of what is going to be in V4, and should be content with that. Demanding that he make it stable for V3 users is a little over the top, now that I think about it. If we want stability at this stage, we should be willing to pay for it (V4)...as Beta stage software is never, ever intended to be gold standard and fully stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member jamie Posted September 5, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 5, 2012 Wouldn't the easiest and least controversial approach be to just continue as is, then once V4 hits stop access to any furthur builds for anyone that doesn't pay for the upgrade? So the beta tools are there but in a state that no longer gets bug fixes or further development? Or just cut them out for V3 - either way I believe most people here would be happy to pay Andrew for the hard work he's put in since V3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 5, 2012 Reputable Contributor Share Posted September 5, 2012 Version 3.0 was released in June of 2009. Now after 3 years of a progression development through 3.5 and 3.7 we are on the threshold of V4 with very powerful features. For the price of a upgrade which Andrew is always very fair about we will get Version 4. I am a happy camper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 5, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 5, 2012 About what price are we talking about? A guess maybe? I'm asking this because any complains could turn to be ridiculous, if the price is reasonable enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted September 5, 2012 Contributor Share Posted September 5, 2012 Just hope you wont be paying in drachmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Wouldn't the easiest and least controversial approach be to just continue as is, then once V4 hits stop access to any furthur builds for anyone that doesn't pay for the upgrade? So the beta tools are there but in a state that no longer gets bug fixes or further development? With most software I'd say yes, but that's because most of them go dark for a while and develop new features which are then released exclusively in the next version. If Andrew did as you suggest there would be no (or few) new features to encourage people to pay for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I think Liveclay is included in what are the "beta tools". Yes, of course. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 // idea And dont forget to add... Starting September 31st through December 31st, when you purchase 3DCoat v3, you will get 3DCoat v4 for free once it becomes available. This is a great opportunity to take advantage of all the new features in 3DCoat v4 without having to worry that a new version is just around corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member simmsimaging Posted September 6, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 6, 2012 I can only speak for myself but I only purchased 3D Coat for it's UV mapping and Painting tools, the whole sculpting thing and all it's associated tools were just a tangent to me, interesting but never going to be used as I'm a mesh modeller and 3D Coat was the perfect mapping and painting tool for my requirements. As long as the UV Mapping and Painting tools are stable and work as expected then I'm a happy bunny. If, on the V3 final release, after so much time and effort has been spent on the programme, the UV Mapping and Painting tools are buggy and substandard then I doubt I will continue to use the programme, as "to me" they are the foundation on which the whole programme rests. Fully agree. I'm starting to think Mari might actually be worth the money - but I'm hoping the painting gets tuned up before I cave in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Mac & Linux builds updated to 3.7.18A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member jwiede Posted September 6, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 6, 2012 Mac & Linux builds updated to 3.7.18A Thanks much, Andrew!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Updated to 3.7.18C (Win). Fixed some critical bugs from mantis (missing top panel in paint room, loading UV, combobox in layers blending options problem and other, see mantis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 6, 2012 Reputable Contributor Share Posted September 6, 2012 Linux version 3.7.18A has the same critical bug or bugs "(missing top panel in paint room)" I did not check for the other bugs but I would think they would be there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member jamie Posted September 6, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yep I'm noticing those same bugs in Linux... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 6, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 6, 2012 I also see these same problems in the Linux 18A version. Great to see the ability to manipulate vertex, edges and faces in the retopo room. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Linux/mac will be updated soon too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cookepuss Posted September 7, 2012 Member Share Posted September 7, 2012 @Andrew: Head's up. The "Without CUDA, 64-bit" (3d-Coat-V37-18C-SIMP64.exe) for v3.7.18C looks like it is wrecked. I downloaded it 5 times, including with a download manager, and got the following error each time I tried to install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 7, 2012 Reputable Contributor Share Posted September 7, 2012 The new windows version update is still listed as Windows [3.7.18B]: on the first page of the thread when it really is 3.7.18C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 The new windows version update is still listed as Windows [3.7.18B]: on the first page of the thread when it really is 3.7.18C Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 - Retopo tools got Faces extrude tool in face selection mode - http://bit.ly/MC23kz The gizmo should be the standard transform gizmo, not a new one that functions completely differently than what we all know and are used to. You should be able to scale and rotate by default too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 - New UI global feature - if you are changing something dragging mouse manually you may press SPACE and enter exact numerical value. Space has now double action - usually choose tool, but in tools where yo pressed mouse and drag something it allows to enter precise value. It is applied to gizmos, primitives, split ring tool in retopo room. This doesn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cookepuss Posted September 7, 2012 Member Share Posted September 7, 2012 The 3d-Coat-V37-18C-SIMP64.exe installer is definitely bad. I tried again this morning, on a different (fresh) PC. I figured that maybe it was just something about my PC or me being tired last night. Nope. Still the same error. Also, the v3.718C file size clocks in at 92.9mb compared to the 117mb of v3.718B version. That can't be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JimB Posted September 7, 2012 Advanced Member Share Posted September 7, 2012 The 3d-Coat-V37-18C-SIMP64.exe installer is definitely bad. I tried again this morning, on a different (fresh) PC. I figured that maybe it was just something about my PC or me being tired last night. Nope. Still the same error. Also, the v3.718C file size clocks in at 92.9mb compared to the 117mb of v3.718B version. That can't be right. It sounds about the right size as there is no pdf manual included this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cookepuss Posted September 7, 2012 Member Share Posted September 7, 2012 Even so, the installer on the SIMP64 version does appear to be broken. I've literally (re)downloaded it 6 times across a few different machines. One of those machines was just recently nuked. I know that it's not my main desktop. On each machine, the installer won't even get past that message I posted above. This is literally the first time I've gotten that message in the 3 years I've been using 3DC. Totally weird. I tried d/l-ing with and without a manager, but the result is the same. The SIMP64 installer seems effed. Anyway, I'm sure that Andrew will resolve it soon enough. No sense in driving myself crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member fingers Posted September 7, 2012 Member Share Posted September 7, 2012 Yes, It's the same for me, cookepuss. Same size file, and problem message after install launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts