Advanced Member michalis Posted June 6, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 To retopo a nude body you need a ~1-3M voxel model (fingers) so what's the use of a proxy here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 Depends on the level of detail you want, if you're working on a game character you can easily get away with the proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 6, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 To retopo a nude body you need a ~1-3M voxel model (fingers) so what's the use of a proxy here? I'm referring to the ability to have a heavy model (20mill poly's+) cached and use just the cached layer to work with in the Retopo room (until you're ready to bake)...as your RAM footprint would be much smaller. Everyone won't need to do this, but those that want to push the limits with as highly detailed a Voxel sculpt (guilty as charged) as possible, this is a great news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 7, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I just wanted to mention a major bug, as the scene I'm working in is deteriorating fast. Volumes start disappearing at random. One just disappeared when I clicked to restore volume (uncache). I posted it in the critical bugs section, but thought I'd warn others to be careful with this build...and to save incrementally and often, so you don't end up losing hours of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 7, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Thanks for this warning AbnRanger, I save often anyway when in 3DC, as in zb too, I always forget to save in blender 2.49b (crashed 1-2 times in last year). @philnolan3d: Show me the fingers, I already see how ears appear. I cant retopo these. Have in mind that I'm on a mac, a 1-5M voxel in retopo room is already a problem. (16 threads 2 xeon) I wont speak about ram as 3DC-mac is a 32bit app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 @philnolan3d: Show me the fingers, I already see how ears appear. I cant retopo these. Have in mind that I'm on a mac, a 1-5M voxel in retopo room is already a problem. (16 threads 2 xeon) I wont speak about ram as 3DC-mac is a 32bit app. Like I said, it depends on how much detail you need. If I needed more detail I would use a different proxy setting. The fingers on this sample model are already close together so that makes it difficult. it would work better if they were spread apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member splodge Posted June 7, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I would think that you can also use a proxy layer as well to Retopologize on...and once you're done, switch to the uncached original, with all the details, to bake down your normal and displacement maps. This way you can cache everything in Voxels, while Retopologizing, and keep your resources as low as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 7, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Yes thats my point philnolan3d, I have problems even with the original hand you posted. Especially when trying to subdivide topology (now we have three option for snapping and it works). Its a PITA isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Wait, I just said it can work and you said "that's my point" I'm confused. If you need to make "mitten hands" for a game character this works perfectly. If the fingers are spread and you use 2X or maybe 4X it would work fine for that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 7, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 If you retopo from surface mode, there shouldn't be any issues with voxel chaff between the fingers...that's why it's better to work in surface mode when smoothing areas that are close together like that, and you don't want them building volume between them in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 7, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 OK thanks, I'll try it, but its the first time that I can retopo from surface mode, with older mac builds this was rather unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kbrilliant Posted June 7, 2010 Member Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I'm experiencing a flickering of all the menus when I use the smooth tool--with the shift key or tool. Has anybody else had this issue v3.3.2 I did have this in the previous build. 64bit, non-CUda Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 7, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I'm experiencing a flickering of all the menus when I use the smooth tool--with the shift key or tool. Has anybody else had this issue v3.3.2 I did have this in the previous build. 64bit, non-CUda Thank you Haven't tried that yet, but Andrew just uploaded a last minute series of fixes on this latest build (3.3.02B)...fixing some issues with volumes sometimes disappearing when un-cached/restored, and some issues still with the split tool. So, I just thought I'd mention that so everyone can download it and avoid any of those problems.The best thing to do with bugs is 1) use something like Camstudio or BB Flashback to create screen recordings of your issue and 2) zip a sample file and send it or a link to it to Andrew, and try to describe how to replicate the problem, and your current 3DC version & OS...you can PM or E-mail him with those things and it really helps him be able to isolate the problem. You can also list the issue in the appropriate bugs threads so others can confirm or deny whether they are having the same issues. That also helps to nail the problem down, if it's happening across platforms and different hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 The best thing to do with bugs is 1) use something like Camstudio or BB Flashback to create screen recordings of your issue I would also add Jing to that, because not only is it very simple and easy to use but it's also free and offers free hosting of the images and videos. it's also made by the same people that make Camtasia. http://jingproject.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I would think that you can also use a proxy layer as well to Retopologize on...and once you're done, switch to the uncached original, with all the details, to bake down your normal and displacement maps. This way you can cache everything in Voxels, while Retopologizing, and keep your resources as low as possible. Yep, that's a fine idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted June 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Updated to 3.3.03 (Win only, Mac & Linux - probably tomorrow) - Multiresolution for voxels is done. It is well multicore optimized. You will be able to degrade object, modify low poly mesh and combine together low and high frequency details. On my thought it is could be even better then usual multires because usually mesh could be degraded only to initial polycount but in our case any mesh can be degraded to any degree. This is for example scan data that has no lowpoly initial proxy. - Corrected message in Retopo menu - Apply symmetry to all layers, new item is there - Apply symmetry to the current layer - The problem with symmetry in voxels resolved - http://bit.ly/9diTKu - Solved problem from the previous build - resizing texture clears layers contence. - The bug with normalmap baking (voxels->ppp) fixed - http://bit.ly/ddLx5b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 9, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Updated to 3.3.03 (Win only, Mac & Linux - probably tomorrow) - Multiresolution for voxels is done. It is well multicore optimized. You will be able to degrade object, modify low poly mesh and combine together low and high frequency details. On my thought it is could be even better then usual multires because usually mesh could be degraded only to initial polycount but in our case any mesh can be degraded to any degree. This is for example scan data that has no lowpoly initial proxy. - Corrected message in Retopo menu - Apply symmetry to all layers, new item is there - Apply symmetry to the current layer - The problem with symmetry in voxels resolved - http://bit.ly/9diTKu - Solved problem from the previous build - resizing texture clears layers contence. - The bug with normalmap baking (voxels->ppp) fixed - http://bit.ly/ddLx5b Thanks Andrew...great work. Quick question...if we have a file that has volumes cached, do we need to copy the cache folder from the 3DC directory if we try to take the file with us (to another computer, at work, school, etc.)? I had an issue with such a scenario, yesterday. I guess it needs to be mentioned if the cache folder needs to go with the file, or if it's necessary to restore all layers before transporting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted June 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Thanks Andrew...great work. Quick question...if we have a file that has volumes cached, do we need to copy the cache folder from the 3DC directory if we try to take the file with us (to another computer, at work, school, etc.)? No, all is distributed with 3B file. In previous version there was problems with creating Cache folder - now it is fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted June 9, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 With the multi-res sculpting, I notice banding when the volume is restored, is this going to get further attention to smooth it out? Exciting update Andrew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 9, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Sounded cool, but like a a lof of part of this program, the implementation is so obscure i don't even understand what i'm doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted June 9, 2010 Applink Developer Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 This is nice update, thanks Andrew. I can finally move dense sculpts fast and easy. 3dArtist, The reason of those banding is the voxel meshflow. It is like waves in the ocean. You can try this method. First, go to voxel surface mode. Then smooth the surface and after that press downgrade button. Now it creates downgrade mesh acording the smoothed voxel surface mesh. But I think that Andrew finds something nice to hide this nasty effect in the future. EDIT: actually this method really dosen't help to fix those waves. I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 I don't think the implementation is that obscure, it's still a lot easier to figure out than zbrush I think. Mudbox might be a little easier. I do see the banding and in my tests it was a big problem, hopefully that can finally be resolved in a future update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lawless Posted June 9, 2010 Member Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Sounded cool, but like a a lof of part of this program, the implementation is so obscure i don't even understand what i'm doing... Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 9, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 I don't think the implementation is that obscure, it's still a lot easier to figure out than zbrush I think. Mudbox might be a little easier. Post edited by moderator. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted June 9, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Jeez All i get is a big mess. Seems that the proxy works but as soon as I come out of proxy and back to voxels I just get one hell of a mess when I come to Sculpt? Its more than just the banding here its unworkable after switching from proxy. I'll stick with 3.3.1 for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member splodge Posted June 9, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Oh damn... Like how allowing people to go from Surface mode to Voxel mode opened 3D Coat up to a lot of frustration and criticism because of how slow the process was. Well this multires support will also bring a lot of criticisms. Sometimes if something can't be done satisfactorily then it's best to just avoid it completely. The multires support seemed fine when playing around with a voxel sphere at the default resolution, but when increasing the resolution above 8 million polys then things start to get unbearably slow. It all just makes 3D Coat look bad. I think it may be best to just prevent users from going from Surface to Voxel mode (no more merging complaints!) and also prevent users from editing lower resolutions. Users will adjust their workflow accordingly. Voxels should be for creating the basic shape, surface mode should be for detailing.. Possible workflow: Create model in voxels Detail in surface mode (optional) Retopo Paint Pose (Sculpt room, optional) Save ...sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 9, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Oh damn... Like how allowing people to go from Surface mode to Voxel mode opened 3D Coat up to a lot of frustration and criticism because of how slow the process was. Well this multires support will also bring a lot of criticisms. Sometimes if something can't be done satisfactorily then it's best to just avoid it completely. The multires support seemed fine when playing around with a voxel sphere at the default resolution, but when increasing the resolution above 8 million polys then things start to get unbearably slow. It all just makes 3D Coat look bad. I think it may be best to just prevent users from going from Surface to Voxel mode (no more merging complaints!) and also prevent users from editing lower resolutions. Users will adjust their workflow accordingly. Voxels should be for creating the basic shape, surface mode should be for detailing.. Possible workflow: Create model in voxels Detail in surface mode (optional) Retopo Paint Pose (Sculpt room, optional) Save ...sleep Totaly agree, right now all the proxy/caching thing looks like a bad workaround for the real problem: voxel are too ressource consuming. The best workflow imho would be to work on the sculpt room, to bring it to the level of zbrush and mudbox, and use the voxel sculpt for simple shaping. I don't see another way that appear more logical to new users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 The biggest problems I see right now are that I had some tearing of the polygons when loading the high res back in and also that it switches to surface mode, so switching back to voxels took a long time and eventually froze up on both of my tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted June 9, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 FYI It looks like the lower the proxy res the less banding occurs when restoring volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted June 9, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Its like it never fully comes out of Proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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