Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 9, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 ...and thought you might be trying to use the models pallet instead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 no worries, its always a pleasure knowing that on issues i can always depend on you guys. 3d coat replaced a lot of suites we used to work with , so being part of a reliable community is crucial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Andrew, would it be possible to make AUTOPO calculate its stuff in some background process? This way instead of spending the time waiting for calculations to complete, we could still work with the scene. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 9, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Andrew, would it be possible to make AUTOPO calculate its stuff in some background process? This way instead of spending the time waiting for calculations to complete, we could still work with the scene. What do you think? I was just going to ask if he could get the guy who implemented the OpenCL AO, to have 3D Coat calculate Auto-Retopo....mainly when you turn off/uncheck "Decimate if Above." Unchecking that gives a much better result, but it takes forever to calculate. Using OpenCL to calculate that would improve the whole experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrots Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) I was just going to ask if he could get the guy who implemented the OpenCL AO, to have 3D Coat calculate Auto-Retopo....mainly when you turn off/uncheck "Decimate if Above." Unchecking that gives a much better result, but it takes forever to calculate. Using OpenCL to calculate that would improve the whole experience. I think OpenCL can greatly accelerate auto-retopo. I wanted to do it, too. The question - what feature now has top priority?!.... Edited August 9, 2015 by carrots 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I think OpenCL can greatly accelerate the auto-retopo. I wanted to do it, too. The question - what feature now has top priority?!.... Hi Vladimir, nice to meet you. I'm currently waiting for an AUTOPO of a mesh that was decimated down to 300k and it already is taking a good while to calculate, so I can imagine how long would it take to process my raw 1.5M non-decimated object. Being an advocate of semi-auto retopology tools, I was always doubtful when it comes to fully automated retopo, but for the first time I feel that without it I wouldn't make it with a deadline because of so many complex non-deformable objects that I need to process. The results I get from AUTOPO are quite good, but like I said, the time it takes to calculate is long, so any means of accelerating it are welcome. Especially when you say that processing of denser meshes yields better results. I don't know about your priorities guys - I think it's refactoring at the moment - but after you're done with it please do think about the thing that is in discussion here. OpenCL seems like an awesome solution to shortening AUTOPO's calculation time. P.S. I've noticed that AUTOPO sometimes leaves holes in the retopo mesh (usually one deleted quad, or two neighbouring ones) and produces n-gons here and there. Is this normal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 + 10000000 for faster AUTOPO using it most of the times and must admit that with newest algorithm results are almost acceptable for animation too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 9, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I think OpenCL can greatly accelerate auto-retopo. I wanted to do it, too. The question - what feature now has top priority?!.... I was trying to use Auto Retopo on a bust of a character, to use in the next Newsletter, but it's taken me hours of different attempts and I've not yet come out with anything presentable. In fact, I just now had to kill the application because it was over an hour on a single attempt and wasn't even halfway through. So, yeah...Auto-Retopo could DEFINITELY use some OpenCL love. Since all the modeling tools work on a dense mesh, Auto-Retopo is such an important component. The faster one can get through a single attempt, the less aggravating it is to have to make several attempts to get a decent result. OpenCL could have saved me a few hours today, alone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Plus , 3d coat is well known for its autopo among other strong points (painting and voxel sculpting) , so getting it better / faster is a must i would dare to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) well there is always gonna be some sort of default spacing because brush strokes use images alphas and those have to be somehow repeated along the stroke otherwise the stroke would never have anything to do with the alpha used....it would be just a generic stroke controlled by falloff... The dots you see comes from the fact that the alphas used are too small.....there is too much black space versus grey/white space on the image. If you use broader alphas you will notice no dots even if spacing is off... Here, no spacing using the first 2 default alphas: no spacing.jpg Agreed. But, if turning brush spacing off results in longer spaces between stroke samples when compared to a case where this setting is enabled - with the same alpha, then something starts to feel wrong here. Edited August 9, 2015 by ajz3d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I think OpenCL can greatly accelerate auto-retopo. I wanted to do it, too. The question - what feature now has top priority?!.... - please take a look 3d-coat-roadmap* * can login with any gmail account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 - please take a look 3d-coat-roadmap* * can login with any gmail account Hey Vladimir. I recommend taking a look at our Trello as well. It's got a good list with features/enhancements that we've been voting on for quite some time. It's a good place to start from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor TimmyZDesign Posted August 9, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 - please take a look 3d-coat-roadmap* * can login with any gmail account Many of the requests there on Trello and Mantis do not need OpenCL speed improvement. If Vladimir (Carrots) is specializing in writing OpenCL code for 3D-Coat, then he should focus on the slow parts of 3D-Coat.Currently these are slow in 3D-Coat: 1. Pose Tool with dense mesh 2. Autopo 3. Sculpting/painting with large brush radius 4. Some Paint Room tools/sliders are slow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Many of the requests there on Trello and Mantis do not need OpenCL speed improvement. If Vladimir (Carrots) is specializing in writing OpenCL code for 3D-Coat, then he should focus on the slow parts of 3D-Coat. Currently these are slow in 3D-Coat: 1. Pose Tool with dense mesh 2. Autopo 3. Sculpting/painting with large brush radius 4. Some Paint Room tools/sliders are slow Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Winner! +1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 10, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 +100000000000000 just switch 1 with 2 and you are touching perfection.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 +100000000000000 just switch 1 with 2 and you are touching perfection.... Speaking of perfection.....I stopped trying Auto-Retopo on an Aysmmetrical Bust, and switched to Symmetrical one. Still took a number of attempts and tweaks, but this is the first time I have EVER seen 3D Coat do a near perfect job on the head of a character. There is one spot near the temple, that needs to be cleaned up, but apart from that, it did a bang-up job. This is why I think it's imperative for 3D Coat to employ some GPU acceleration (OpenCL) to Auto-Retopo. It otherwise takes WAY too long to calculate. And fiddling with parameters > another attempt becomes too time prohibitive to even consider using Auto-Retopo. That means ZBrush users looking at 3D Coat will just go back to ZBrush, because it's ZRemesher works better, right out of the gate. When you crank up the "Capture Details" and uncheck "Decimate if Above," the chances of a great result are much higher....but again, it takes nearly half an hour to well over an hour just to run Auto-Retopo. A good artist can probably do most of the face, manually within an hour, so the calculation times are just too prohibitive. I was just testing today. In production, there ain't no way I would use Auto Retopo on an a moderately complex object....mostly because of the number of attempts X the time it takes to calculate. It can burn hours of our day just trying to get it right...before giving up. So, yeah...OpenCL for Auto-Retopo, all day long. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 10, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Very good results , honestly very good results. By the way , i totally agree with what you just said , i am facing the same issues but unfortunately due to extreme deadlines i still use the autopo , lets say on 3rd to 5th try i get the results i need. So 2 options here 1) Polish the new algorithm 2) Use the existing new algorithm and speed it up with OpenCL so we don't loose so much time on complex models. Perfection..... Do both lol. Edited August 10, 2015 by Michaelgdrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sorry but Paint Room Fill No Pattern NoPattern.jpg Thanks! But really pity, the build again can't be called stable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thanks! But really pity, the build again can't be called stable.... It's getting close, though. Lots of important problems fixed, recently. By the way, Andrew, would it be possible for 3D Coat to ignore the "Depth Limit" option in the E-Panel when certain tools are used....like VoxExtrude/Layer? Because that BUG I reported about the splines/shape draw modes (E-Panel) not working with those tools....was actually a result of that option being checked (many users many not even realize it is on, especially new users). It needs to be either grayed-out/disabled with those selection-based tools or have 3D Coat just ignore it. This will save people having to bring this problem up on the forum and keep users from e-mailing you, asking why those tools don't work right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 ...and I know you are trying to get into the Refactoring work, but if at all possible, PLEASE let Carrot implement OpenCL with Auto-Retopo. It is one of 3D Coat's most important tools, and the user often HAS to make multiple attempts to get a decent result. OpenCL doing most/all of the calculation could minimize the hassle of repeated attempts. In my tests...which I spent the better part of yesterday doing....if the user unchecks "Decimate if Above" you typically get MUCH better results. Results you just cannot get otherwise. Problem is, the calculation time is abysmally excessive. PLEASE...OpenCL. OpenCL Please. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Michaelgdrs Posted August 10, 2015 Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) We could even write a song about Carrots , Auto-Retopo and OpenCL if needed Edited August 10, 2015 by Michaelgdrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Autopo and Open CL and VERY different things, I see no chance there. Autopo = 500 times solve 100k x100k linear system (in doubles, not floats!). OpenCL is just useless there, at least for current method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Autopo and Open CL and VERY different things, I see no chance there. Autopo = 500 times solve 100k x100k linear system (in doubles, not floats!). OpenCL is just useless there, at least for current method. Then for more complex models, then it is practically unusable...in it's current state. I spent ALL DAY yesterday trying to get a decent result, and the only time I could come close was by unchecking "Decimate if Above." That meant wait times of 30minutes to well over an hour. And in a number of cases, the progress seemed stuck on 0% for well over 30min...and I had to kill the app > Restart the app. If OpenCL cannot be used, then it should be made clear to users that Auto-Retopo is only for simple to intermediate level complexity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 10, 2015 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 ...it is just too time prohibitive...not to mention the frustration of having to make multiple attempts and never know if all your efforts will even payoff. For this reason, I personally don't use Auto-Retopo much at all. You can lose a LOT of time and find yourself at a dead end, in it's previous and current state. It works great in some cases (primitive shaped models), but can be a mess in others. OpenCL, could greatly reduce the amount of hassle a user has to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member dimitribastos Posted August 10, 2015 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Don't know it this is the best place to ask, but it is normal a slow behavior on the computer regarding creating AO and Curvature maps and even enable or disable layer visibility for a 8k smart material on a simple low poly mesh? I have a I7 3550k, 16gb ddr3 and GTX 970 4GB, 3D Coat 4.5.10 EDIT: also, everytime I will use Fill Tool with Smart Material 3D Coats warns me that the process can take a long time. I can only press OK or CANCEL using keyboard. Mouse becomes unresponsive. Edited August 10, 2015 by dimitribastos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Any Siggraph news I should be sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Any Siggraph news I should be sharing? We wont be at SIGGRAPH. A new thread if you want to report on SIGGRAPH stuff (assuming you're there?), would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I'm not there, I wish I could afford it. I just thought there might be a sale on 3DC or something, I think there was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I don't think so. Stas is on vacation again, and wont be around for some time.Of course, Stas could have something planned that he hasn't shared with anyone. Happens all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 What file and where you dropped? I checked and on my tests all works as expected - there are much more items in D&D menu. After 4.5.11 install... this function works again But when i drop a *.gif the D&D menu option disappear -is not showed anymore- to close and open 3DC doesnt help. is not working anymore again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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