Advanced Member Maximus3D Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Why is it that whenever i increase the voxelcount (polycount) whichever it is then model always double in size until it ends up HUGE and it's difficult to navigate around. Should it really behave like this ? i mean the model should keep it's size even if the polycount is increased. / Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Why is it that whenever i increase the voxelcount (polycount) whichever it is then model always double in size until it ends up HUGE and it's difficult to navigate around. Should it really behave like this ? i mean the model should keep it's size even if the polycount is increased./ Magnus It is only for simplicity to me. Of course scale will not change in final version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cedric Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 A very simple question : is there any setting to tweak the number of polygons when converting a voxel modeling to polygons ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 A very simple question : is there any setting to tweak the number of polygons when converting a voxel modeling to polygons ? No. But there will be several options in near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cedric Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 a suggestion : will it be possible to add a 2D rotation tool ? sometime, on a paper sheet or with a drawing program like painter, you turn the document so you can do easily some strokes and it could be really great to have the same with 3DCoat. It could be a simple slider with a value from 0 to 360° and a button to go back to 0° with one click (see the picture to see the rotation). I hope it's not an existing feature..if yes, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member David Walters Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 a suggestion : will it be possible to add a 2D rotation tool ? sometime, on a paper sheet or with a drawing program like painter, you turn the document so you can do easily some strokes and it could be really great to have the same with 3DCoat. It could be a simple slider with a value from 0 to 360° and a button to go back to 0° with one click (see the picture to see the rotation). I hope it's not an existing feature..if yes, sorry I think there is a camera 'tumble' (roll / z-axis rotation) option using the mouse buttons and some combination of ALT and CTRL, etc. - but I can never quite get it to happen reliably. There's certainly nothing as simple as holding down 'R' to tumble and tapping 'R' to reset ... or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member akira Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I think there is a camera 'tumble' (roll / z-axis rotation) option using the mouse buttons and some combination of ALT and CTRL, etc. - but I can never quite get it to happen reliably. There's certainly nothing as simple as holding down 'R' to tumble and tapping 'R' to reset ... or whatever It's Alt + MMB+LMB or RMB see, another FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cedric Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I think there is a camera 'tumble' (roll / z-axis rotation) option using the mouse buttons and some combination of ALT and CTRL, etc. - but I can never quite get it to happen reliably. There's certainly nothing as simple as holding down 'R' to tumble and tapping 'R' to reset ... or whatever ho yes, I've found it : alt+click center and click right. I missed it because it's a difficult combo to do with a tablet pen. Sorry for the wrong suggestion and thank you for your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member artaq Posted October 17, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 No your not. I agree with you 110%. Ive been asking for voxel equivalents for all tools since way back. In fact in the "carve and related tools" thread i specifically requested a voxel flatten. Its silly you are forced to degrade your voxel sculpt by switching to polygons and then back again just for using flatten. In my humble opinion you should only ever have to deal with polygons during final export, nowhere before that. Now it could be that its neccesary to perform some actions in polygons (im thinking of general transforms of sculpts and transpose) but if its in an way possible those tools should be voxel tools aswel. As a sidenote (i may put this in the tools thread) i never really gotten voxel pinch to work pleasingly in comparison to the polygon version. If you use both versions next to eachother the difference is very clear. Polygon pinch works perfectly (it really does) and voxel pinch doesnt come close (it feels very weak). Have you noticed that too Sonk? 3dioot I'm in complete agreement with you regarding the surface tools, and especially the pinch... I can't live without the poly pinch tool; for me it behaves so much more on target than it's voxel counterpart, and I tend to go to it quite often for the work I've been doing, so please don't get rid of it unless the voxel-version get's just as good! Naturally the only downside to the poly pinch is that when it's converted back to voxels much of the finer details are lost, that's why the voxel version is so important to refine ultimately. Edit: I just noticed several more posts were added regarding this after your response... sorry for repeating the obvious grievances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member rimasson Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I'm in complete agreement with you regarding the surface tools, and especially the pinch... I can't live without the poly pinch tool; for me it behaves so much more on target than it's voxel counterpart, and I tend to go to it quite often for the work I've been doing, so please don't get rid of it unless the voxel-version get's just as good! Naturally the only downside to the poly pinch is that when it's converted back to voxels much of the finer details are lost, that's why the voxel version is so important to refine ultimately.Edit: I just noticed several more posts were added regarding this after your response... sorry for repeating the obvious grievances And please add a poly sculpting tool. Actually, smoothing a thin surface gives... blobs i tried to play with the spray/thaw tool, to emulate the poly smoothbut it gives uneven results, depending on the thickness of the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 And please add a poly sculpting tool. Actually, smoothing a thin surface gives... blobsi tried to play with the spray/thaw tool, to emulate the poly smoothbut it gives uneven results, depending on the thickness of the surface. What is poly sculpting tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member rimasson Posted October 17, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 What is poly sculpting tool? sorry, i would like to write "smoothing tool' instead of 'sculpting tool' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 sorry, i would like to write "smoothing tool' instead of 'sculpting tool' It works with SHIFT in any surface tool. To make vox smoothing less blobby, decrease degree of smoothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted October 18, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I agree with others,especially for the flatten brush. About smooth,can you do an option to smooth only volume where is full,not where is empty? I mean,if you do a character in neutral pose,the interior part of leg now are really difficoult to do,if you use the smooth brush the hole between leg get filled,I don't know if it's easy to do but and option to avoid filling volume when smoothing can be useful(sometimes is also useful filling hole,so IMHO should be an option or a new brush) Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cyartist Posted October 18, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Here is the ultimate posing tool if 3d Coat could implement this technology into the program then posing would be limitless even on High Res Meshes. See link below. http://www.kunzhou.net/publications/MeshPuppetry.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wailingmonkey Posted October 18, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 rendermon - yep, I notice this too when trying to sculpt out an ear from the side of the head. The area at the top of where the ear seperates from the skull is really difficult to get the spacing but still have it smooth (my solution was to use the voxel 'move' to shift the underlying surface around...seemed to work for the most part). I also agree that a dedicated smoothing tool in addition to holding 'shift' would be a welcome addition...especially if we are soon to be able to edit tool profiles based upon a new curve editor (as has been discussed on the interface threads and many requests about pen alpha control in the earlier days of 3dbrush). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 3DBob Posted October 20, 2008 Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 To cyartist, That is certainly one awesome posing tool. 3DBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I think, first we should understand which function the volume skulpting tools in 3DC representate. I don't really get it, for now. 1. Do they have to be a really new skulpting way and replace the old school skulpting tools? 2. Or do they have to be a alternative way, just for creating base meshes? If the second point is right, then it is ok like it is. I create a base mesh with the volume skulpting tools an convert it to a standard mesh and implement my details later, with the classic skulpting tools. I think, it is something between the first and the second point, I mentioned. I'm shure that it is very tricky to "simulate" the possibilities of the classical skulpting tools with volumes. Maybe here are some open questions. One of the most important: What is the target of the next version of 3DC ? Be creative Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Mantis Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 ... If that's the second answer so 3DCoat has already aimed its goal, you can already use it to create base mesh and use them in other "old school sculpting tools". And I don't know if you have already seen sensable tools, but they proved that you are able to match what "old school sculpting tools" do, so I'm sure Andrew can do it too. I'm clearly amazed by the work he have done so far, I really think he can match the 2 Bigs software. Like you said they are "old school sculpting tools", and I really hope that 3DCoat will gain the market because for me voxel sculpting is what is the closest to real sculpting. You will be able to use it for anything, from concepting to prototyping, you can easily separate an arm and dig joint between both parts with volumetric sculpting while it's a real pain with "old school sculpting tools" (even if it is not possible in the current state). I bet on 3DC for the future, it's been a really long time since I waited such a software, and I'm sure I am not the only one to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I bet on 3DC for the future, it's been a really long time since I waited such a software, and I'm sure I am not the only one to. I just wonder if Pilgway will ever go public so I can buy some stock. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Link is updated to V31 Changes: 1) Incremental render! In this mode only changed parts of mesh will be rendered. It leads to big performance boost especially at big polycount. It needs some testing on different video cards because of it is slightly hardware dependent. 2) Very good quality of "Increase resolution" 3) Accurate smoothing checker 4) More smooth surface in retopo tool in "Merge in scene" 5) Mass bugfixes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member TOXE Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Link is updated to V31Changes: 1) Incremental render! In this mode only changed parts of mesh will be rendered. It leads to big performance boost especially at big polycount. It needs some testing on different video cards because of it is slightly hardware dependent. 2) Very good quality of "Increase resolution" 3) Accurate smoothing checker 4) More smooth surface in retopo tool in "Merge in scene" 5) Mass bugfixes Good! I hope that the rule of two windows versions=one OSX is always valid;-) Hope also to be able to convert correctly from voxels to polys... -TOXE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Hmm I loaded my current model which was saved with some parts hidden, then clicked Unhide All, and then whole thing disappeared. Seems nothing will make it come back. OK I did an incremental save and restarted 3DC, now the Unhide All works. When you say Incremental Render are you referring to the on-screen display, or the render button? If I hide an area and hit Invert hidden the whole thing disappears. Sorry I know this probably go in the bugzz thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I have started to test 31 version now,on my system (quad core 6600 with geforce 8600 with 4 giga on windows vista 32 bit) version 30 is better,with the new version if I use a medium size brushes always after releasing the mouse I have a green bar for waiting(it's really annoying as the view for a bit redraw without the model and I see this loading green bar). Previous version(30) for my system was better,sometimes there was a delay but it never flicker the screen as now(and never see that bar). If the brush is big there is even some problem because some random voxels grid appear. Unchecking incremental rendering seems to do nothing,the velocity is the same,with the same problems Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Hmm I loaded my current model which was saved with some parts hidden, then clicked Unhide All, and then whole thing disappeared. Seems nothing will make it come back. OK I did an incremental save and restarted 3DC, now the Unhide All works. When you say Incremental Render are you referring to the on-screen display, or the render button?If I hide an area and hit Invert hidden the whole thing disappears. Sorry I know this probably go in the bugzz thread. I mean render in realtime, not "Render button". Realtime render speed is most important. TOXE, excuse, there was much changes, it must be tested well on Windows first. So I hope to publish OSX version tomorrow evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Updated again, I have set that progress bar will appear only on really heavy operations. Incremental render works only if shadows are turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Updated again, I have set that progress bar will appear only on really heavy operations. Thanks ,I'm testing(I have downloaded again),it seems the bar has gone away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Great, hiding problem seems to be fixed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member TOXE Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I mean render in realtime, not "Render button". Realtime render speed is most important.TOXE, excuse, there was much changes, it must be tested well on Windows first. So I hope to publish OSX version tomorrow evening. You know, no problems! Every thing need the right time. I'm here:-) -TOXE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted October 20, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ok,after some testing,this version works very good,thanks,I really like working with it. But the memory problem is still here. After one hour sculpting it give me"Out of memory,you should increase virtual memory",or something like that. The program doesn't crash,but I'm not able to save and I have to exit. It happens on different files,IMHO isn't related to a particular mesh. IMHO it doesn't depend on how huge is the voxel,the last time I found that is with a new mesh with only 100000 poly,I found that problem also with model with 1.6 million,300.000,and so on. Maybe is an undo problem? In this version I also found a little problem,when sculpting from some particular camera view the volume disappair(some regions),simply rotating(or zooming out) a bit solves the problem,but sometime you need to work from some fixed view(I think it can be related to zbuffer precision an clipping plane,it happens when you go very close to some detail zone) Btw,thank you for the hard work,if you need some file to understand better the problem I can send you. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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