3D-Coat 3.0 ALPHA

[artman]

Hey artman, I don't know if you noticed but you got some crazy multiple post here.

lol I'm glad that was removed fast

I don't know what happened I only pressed "add reply" once.

[philnolan3d]

Strange... never seen it. Was ray counter increasing?

Yes I started hitting Esc around 1800 rays, by the time I finally force-crashed the program it was at around 5000. I've seen this happen on my laptop a lot but it would eventually stop if I kept hitting Esc long enough, usually 30 secs to a minute.

BTW this was with 17 mil polys. My computer also really struggles with all of the objects visible.

[Pimpmymonkey]

I am using own idea (based on mix of existing methods), slightly related to constrained Voronoi clustering. I have read the article you referred, it s also under experimenting.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm excited to see what you come up with.

As always, thank you for your hard work.

May God be with you,

P. Monk

[Frankie]

Some notes about performances using version 47. (both DX64 and GL64)

With CUDA, the brushes are damn fast, and quite usable up to 40 millions (the max I've been able to get so far, I've had a crash past that ammount with no apparent reason, had plenty of ram left. A report has been sent).

However when tumbling the view, it takes a while before your brush reapears. Depending on the size of the zone you've been working on. I suppose it has something to do with the copy to the undo buffer. Also sometimes, the tumbling of the view goes to a halft for a few seconds, then back. It would be great if these could be optimized at some point as it slows down the workflow.

Also I find the increase resolution operation to be really slow. Past a few million, it takes several minutes to perform. Speeding up this operation would be nice.

Apart from these things, I'm very impressed with the performances overall. If these issues are to be tacled at some point it will provide an even smoother experience across the board. Which can only be a good thing.

Another thing I'm looking forward to is the ability to paint/select parts and separate to another object (probably requires the voxel painting tools though). This in combination with the treeview would enable larger scene management. Split parts -> increase resolution of parts -> work on them separately -> fuse them back. A workflow I'm used to do with Claytools.

Agree with some earlier post that moving sub objects around would be alot easier with a simple universal transform gizmo. At least the pivot should follow the transformed object.

Can't wait for the quadrangulation. I'm sick of doing manual retopo, even if it's the best retopo tool available lol.

Keep up the very good work,

Franck.

[philnolan3d]

I noticed Spray / Thaw was changed to Increase. The thing about that is that I keep hitting Inc Resolution when I mean to hit the Increase tool. I think that's partly the name and partly because they're both in the upper left corner of their group. So I'm wondering if it might be better to just call it Spray or maybe Grow.

[NinjaTaco]

The material masks still act funny. Sometimes they work sometimes they don't and sometimes they only seem to work on a particular axis. When they work sometimes the size seems inaccurate to the alpha image. Sometimes I just get nothing but noise. Sometimes it works well but parts of the mesh has streaks.

[ldzywsj]

I noticed Spray / Thaw was changed to Increase. The thing about that is that I keep hitting Inc Resolution when I mean to hit the Increase tool. I think that's partly the name and partly because they're both in the upper left corner of their group. So I'm wondering if it might be better to just call it Spray or maybe Grow.

Agree

[TOXE]

I noticed Spray / Thaw was changed to Increase. The thing about that is that I keep hitting Inc Resolution when I mean to hit the Increase tool. I think that's partly the name and partly because they're both in the upper left corner of their group. So I'm wondering if it might be better to just call it Spray or maybe Grow.

Agree (2)

-TOXE

[GED]

Ive just installed alpha 47 and it is saying my trial has expired and now its running in demo mode...is this normal? I would really like to try exporting and importing files and I havent had a chance to test that out yet.

[philnolan3d]

Ive just installed alpha 47 and it is saying my trial has expired and now its running in demo mode...is this normal? I would really like to try exporting and importing files and I havent had a chance to test that out yet.

Are you sure your serial number is entered correctly?

[GED]

Are you sure your serial number is entered correctly?

I dont have a serial number, I want to buy 3d coat v3 when its released, I dont really want to buy v2. I assumed that every time I install a new alpha version eg version 47 then it would give me another 15 days to play with starting from when it was installed.

[philnolan3d]

Oh, I see I misunderstood. I'm pretty sure with the trial you get 15 days and that's it. Perhaps you can get an extension. I didn't even bother with the trial I just went ahead and bought it. Of course it was only $80 back then.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I dont have a serial number, I want to buy 3d coat v3 when its released, I dont really want to buy v2. I assumed that every time I install a new alpha version eg version 47 then it would give me another 15 days to play with starting from when it was installed.

Next alpha will prolong trial period. So, just wait 2-3 days.

[ldzywsj]

Andrew,when you are working on quadrangulations , please have a look at this,the man who makes a deep research on mesh quadrangulations and Simplification

http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Pierre.All...blications.html

[AbnRanger]

Next alpha will prolong trial period. So, just wait 2-3 days.

Andrew, have you considered offering (like Modo and other software vendors have in the past) Pre-Release sales from now, the first of the year until v3 is finally released? Perhaps enticing fence-sitters, and those owning other programs, to essentially get in at the current price (or somewhere in between what it is now and what you plan to charge then) and get a free upgrade. And to keep current license holders from feeling left out, perhaps offer the pre-release upgrade at half price. This is one of those effective marketing tools that gives you an infusion of cash during the development grind, and you entice more prospective customers to enter the fold than otherwise.

Newtek and Luxology have had similar promotions, and they work. It also helps provide funds to advertise the promotion and subsequent release announcement.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Andrew, have you considered offering (like Modo and other software vendors have in the past) Pre-Release sales from now, the first of the year until v3 is finally released? Perhaps enticing fence-sitters, and those owning other programs, to essentially get in at the current price (or somewhere in between what it is now and what you plan to charge then) and get a free upgrade. And to keep current license holders from feeling left out, perhaps offer the pre-release upgrade at half price. This is one of those effective marketing tools that gives you an infusion of cash during the development grind, and you entice more prospective customers to enter the fold than otherwise.

Newtek and Luxology have had similar promotions, and they work. It also helps provide funds to advertise the promotion and subsequent release announcement.

Thank for propose! I will think about this... But... It is really unexpected to me, but sales go very well now, even if peoples know that V3 will out soon.

I don't very like pre-sales because I want to sell what is done to feel itself better.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Andrew,when you are working on quadrangulations , please have a look at this,the man who makes a deep research on mesh quadrangulations and Simplification

http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Pierre.All...blications.html

Thanks! Yes, I have read these articles recently.

[GED]

Next alpha will prolong trial period. So, just wait 2-3 days.

Oh thats not too long thank you very much. Im working on a little project at the moment where I would like to try using the normal map and occlusion baking.

[jedwards]

Thank for propose! I will think about this... But... It is really unexpected to me, but sales go very well now, even if peoples know that V3 will out soon.

I don't very like pre-sales because I want to sell what is done to feel itself better.

I think your current marketing is quite good and suitable to your product and its price range. 3dC isn't even close to being in the same price range as others like Modo, and yet you give full access to the alphas to non-customers so they can see what they will be getting in 3.0 and actually use it, not to mention the full access to everything in 2.x. At best, Modo users get a few lines of text, the occasional image or short movie that shows off upcoming features, but it's all still pretty vague compared to what you can see/use immediately with 3dcoat. Granted, the products are different, but the principles are not.

I bought 2.x because of the alpha, as I'm sure others have. Your pricing makes it advantageous to buy now with a slight upgrade fee without making the user feel like they are paying extra, since they'll pay more for the software if they actually wait for 3.0. Considering the huge amount of work and new features in 3.0 compared to 2.x I can't see anyone complaining about this without sounding ridiculous. The software is dirt cheap regardless of what version you buy in the end and new users are probably starting to roll in just from word of mouth advertising (the best kind in my opinion).

I also think that pre-sales are rather shady. You are paying for a product you don't actually get to use or at least promising to pay for it when it releases, as I don't think lux actually charge your credit card till the product is released. It's more to the developer's favor to do this as it brings in customers based on promises - or worse - a few bucks off of a product you still haven't been able to see and use yourself, which is never a good way to sell a product. You have the best method available - try before you buy, and let the product speak for itself, which is much more favorable to the customer.

I just find it funny how bigger companies are so tight lipped about their product releases for fear of competitive theft when you are doing the exact opposite and letting everyone not only see it but help develop it! As a customer I find that incredibly rewarding and much more worthy of loyalty to your product. It really makes the bigger companies efforts at masking their development look rather absurd - especially when I do sometimes see previews of upcoming features in their products and still find myself asking if it is worth it to upgrade. I've grown really tired of just handing over my money 'on good faith' and being disappointed. So please keep doing what you are doing Andrew. The push towards version 3 has been the best development cycle I've ever been part of.

[mocaw]

I just find it funny how bigger companies are so tight lipped about their product releases for fear of competitive theft when you are doing the exact opposite and letting everyone not only see it but help develop it!

I totally agree with the rest of your post- but I just wanted to point out that most publicly traded companies (unlike Pilgway and Newtek) can't talk about a product unless they plan to release it that quarter- even closed door tech demos can sometimes be an issue. At least this is what I've been told by large companies...but then again...who trusts large publicly traded companies these days?

Besides a few touches to the web site, UI, and demos, I think the Pilgway team should continue as they are for now since it seems to be working really well. I just can't see this thing NOT continuing to snowballing through word of mouth etc. with little effort by the Pilgway team.

Is this not the easiest program to recommend to people based on price or functionality?! So easy to "evangelize" it!

Keep up the good work Andrew- your dedicated work ethics and mental flexibility are an inspiration to us all!

[JulesD]

Also when working on quadrangulations, is it possible to allow this of meshes with texture already, and have the texture fit properly after the quadrangulations.

The biggest problem I find is the texture being applied after, especially with meshes with groups, at the seams.

[ldzywsj]

Andrew,really can't wait to see what you have done on mesh quadrangulation and simplification! But, I talk to myself be patient and wait you to make it better,

you know,retopo takes good quantity of sale to 3dc, and mesh quadrangulation will bring retopo to a new level! Now 3dc is becoming a modeling as well as texture program.So mesh quadrangulation worth a long time to developing and waiting!

[Andrew Shpagin]

There was only 5-6 working days since start of quadrangulation. One method is almost ready. I am fixing last obvious bugs. But I don't think I will be able to make update today. To much small quirks. Also I am not 100% satisfied, I will continue experiments even after update.

[otsoa]

Good ! take your time .

[splodge]

Andrew,really can't wait to see what you have done on mesh quadrangulation and simplification! But, I talk to myself be patient and wait you to make it better,

you know,retopo takes good quantity of sale to 3dc, and mesh quadrangulation will bring retopo to a new level! Now 3dc is becoming a modeling as well as texture program.So mesh quadrangulation worth a long time to developing and waiting!

No rush Andrew. You're two years ahead of schedule anyway.

It sounds like you plan on having several methods to choose from. I think this is a great idea as each method will probably have their own strengths and weaknesses.

[kay_Eva]

one thing to throw out there: just thinking outloud as I have no idea what I'm talking about

Maybe if you can use different methods of quadrangulation on different areas of the mesh. Like maybe you can choose to quadrangualate by UV regions, or maybe by some other form of arbitrary selection. I mean, for instance you might want simple slice quadrangulation on all digits such as toes and fingers but for the face you'll want it to go in rings probably, so u just cut the model up into regions and press quadragulate and tada

[GED]

you might want simple slice quadrangulation on all digits such as toes and fingers but for the face you'll want it to go in rings probably, so u just cut the model up into regions and press quadragulate and tada

wouldnt that result in seperate meshes? I mean the edge flow just wouldnt line up with the head/neck to the torso etc so you couldnt weld it together.

[kay_Eva]

wouldnt that result in seperate meshes? I mean the edge flow just wouldnt line up with the head/neck to the torso etc so you couldnt weld it together.

I don't see what it would hwoever I don't really have a clue what I'm talking about

[Andrew Shpagin]

one thing to throw out there: just thinking outloud as I have no idea what I'm talking about

Maybe if you can use different methods of quadrangulation on different areas of the mesh. Like maybe you can choose to quadrangualate by UV regions, or maybe by some other form of arbitrary selection. I mean, for instance you might want simple slice quadrangulation on all digits such as toes and fingers but for the face you'll want it to go in rings probably, so u just cut the model up into regions and press quadragulate and tada

That is not bad idea at all. You are like prophet Really - now I am working over determining cylindrical parts. There is no problem to combine several clusters, but detecting is still an issue. I have made general method for quadrangulation and it works. Now I need to detect cylinders...

[JamesE]

Andrew: did you change the pinch tool at all within the last couple of builds? It seems to work much better now compared to earlier builds. It feels much closer to what I get with the zbrush pinch tool now in that I can actually get proper pinching with it. I didn't have much use for it in previous builds as it wasn't giving me the sharp creasing that I expected.

Edit: scratch that... I was using the pinch tool and not the voxel pinch Haha. Voxel pinch still doesn't give the results I want. =\