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Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

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3DC version beta 4.5.23 Windows 64 bit non-cuda


Possible bug---


Autopo with Per Pixel should do an automatic seam creation and un-wrapping, then go through the rest of the steps to merge to the paint. The routine is skipping the automatic seam creation an unwrapping to a uv set, instead it is going straight to the baking process.


There is no uv-set with seams model for 3DC to bake.


Link to the new user's post.


http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18574#entry128906


Edited by digman

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Hi guys I made this feature request on mantis (feel free to add +1 if you like it):

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2039

I don'n know how 3d coat defines default material, that is restored when 'reset' button in pressed in SMat editor, but it seems buggy. But instead of fixing it, I would much rather prefer to change the way it work.
In some painting apps (krita, pss, cps) there is feature called 'dirty'(temp) brush. It works like this:
- default brush settings are stored as 'master' backup,
- any tweak you make to brush now, is saved to 'dirtty' version (original 'master' version is not destroyed), so we can change brush spacing and it is saved in dirty presed
- if we want we can reset 'dirty' brush to 'master' backup by pressing 'reset do default'.
- there is also button 'save dirty' preset to 'master - this saves current brush settings to 'master' version.
I think this would be great way to handle smart material edits, as sometimes you want to change stuff, but then you would have ability to 'revert to master' version, or save tweaked 'dirty' preset to 'master' version.

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I saw in one video, that the Voxel surface mode brushes were mentioned as legacy brushes. On the safe side, I will mention they are used by a number of users including myself. 

They are really great for building up meshes,,, chiseling away, pinching and fine turning all in voxel mode without having to switch to surface mode.

 

In this post, I am not implying that there is any thought of removing them but just to be safe I brought it up. I will make a video soon on how to use them  and the reasons for using them in voxel mode..

Edited by digman
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If they deprecate voxel sculpting I'm out. But it won't happen.

We will always have voxel mode. My concern was not with the regular voxel brushes but the surface mode brushes that are on the left toobar in voxel mode... I do not even think they are in the agenda to be removed... I was just being safe rather than sorry in my post...  :dash2:

Edited by digman

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Please don't remove the full voxels, I rarely use Surface mode.

 

-Will

LOL... I was not trying to worry anyone,,, Voxels are not going to be removed as it is a major part of 3DC. I did not imply that at all... I am just a user mentioning something I heard in a video. I in no way implied that voxels were going to be removed. You do not have to be worried about voxel mode...   :look:

Edited by digman

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Please don't remove the full voxels, I rarely use Surface mode.

 

-Will

He was talking about the few Surface mode brushes that are at the bottom of the Tool Panel, when the layer is in Voxel mode. It's an old legacy option, to speed up sculpting a bit, when Voxels were the main sculpting mode and Surface mode was very new and didn't have many brushes. It was/is a way to quickly switch to Surface mode on the fly...using just a few brushes.

 

To be honest, Surface mode sculpting is where it's at, now. The Voxel brushes haven't really been touched in ages. All the development, in the past 5yrs or so, has been with Surface mode brushes...including LiveClay brushes.

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I use those brushes a lot on voxels, especially Draw which keeps my voxels intact but is a very clean tool to work with. Please don't remove them for voxel mode. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say. Seriously, there's no point to getting rid of it from the voxel options if it works well.

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I've noticed four problems while I was working with UVs today.

 

First one is minor - 3D-Coat flips the checkers. It's especially noticeable when you select the complex checker.

 

Second might not be a bug but can have dire consequences if not spotted early in the workflow. If you copy a UV-island of one object and paste it over another identical island of an object that is facing the opposite direction, the UVs of the copied object will be flipped. See screenshots for more details and the scene (second_problem.7z) to reproduce the problem.

 

3D-Coat viewport after stacking islands of cylinder caps. Note how the UVs of the bottom-left cylinder are flipped. Also, the images shows the first problem from this post - flipped checkers. I had to horizontally flip the checker2.tga file to make it display properly in the viewport.

post-12523-0-98409100-1448233675_thumb.j

 

UV preview window.

post-12523-0-48766500-1448233681_thumb.p

 

UVs after importing to Houdini. In purple: flipped UVs.

post-12523-0-75068000-1448233685_thumb.j

 

Third problem - the stacked islands require rotation. It seems that their orientation is random when after they are pasted on top of the target island. Of course UV points are always aligned correctly.

 

Fourth problem - sometimes a copied island gets very distorted even though its UVs in the texture editor look perfectly fine (save the red/blue distortion visualizers).

 

post-12523-0-80732500-1448234771_thumb.j

 

Reproducible in this scene: fourth_problem_distortion.7z

 

Instructions for reproducing the problem:

post-12523-0-12291600-1448235755_thumb.j

Edited by ajz3d
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I think you'll find that when you use copy/paste UVs with more distinctive topology 3D Coat does a better job of stacking them correctly.

Generally I agree, but this particular topology has hints in form of points that are connected to three uv seams each. I don't know how the stacking algorithm works behind the scenes, but those points could be used as a reference - points that could help to properly orient UV islands on top of each other.

 

post-12523-0-16036000-1448273567_thumb.j

 

About the distortion from the example, it seems that 3D-Coat turns the unwrapped island inside out. Sort of. On the image below, I indicated point numbers with their original positions before the island was stacked on top of the other one (green). In red - the same points after stacking. Only the points from the middle edge loop were not altered. I'd be grateful if this particular bug could be fixed as soon as it is possible.

 

post-12523-0-20470400-1448273959_thumb.j

Edited by ajz3d

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Something is bonkers with mirroring uv islands. This has been brought up in the SOS Threads.

Ajz3d testing is reveling more of the problem.

Take a simple sphere with a simple retopo. 

Create the seams, unwrap and copy and paste one Uv island over the other.

Bake to the paint room per pixel but no normal map, just straight in as is.

Paint along the symmetry line and what is shown in the picture is what you get...

The only solution so far is, Andrew said to turn symmetry on. Yes it appears to fix the problem but you should not have to turn symmetry on when painting mirrored uvs...Maybe the 3DC development team is busy and can not look at the problem atm. 

 

The below from ajz3d's post could be part of why this is happening.

If you copy a UV-island of one object and paste it over another identical island of an object that is facing the opposite direction, the UVs of the copied object will be flipped

 

The routine should copy and paste the uv island over the other one correctly and without any corrective input from the user after the operation is completed.

post-518-0-90196300-1448305413_thumb.jpg

Edited by digman
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The Instant meshes in the off topic thread as stirred me again to ask for the 3DC development team to work on the current Autopo in 3DC... I am not talking about features of instant meshes but just the current routine we have now. It is better after some work was done on it but it is not a complete feature as of yet in my opinion.

It is still it is a hit and miss routine at times. I know how to get a clean model to run the routine on, so my problems are not from having dirty meshes.  I also know how to apply the guide strokes correctly.

The routine at times still adds more polygons where they are not needed and less where they are needed. Example, the flat bottom part of a bust sculpture will get tons of polygons where the nose will just get few... This should be the opposite

Polygons still will overlap each other and penetrate into the surface of the model 

Painting density still on my end, just really never works... I tried a bunch of times... Maybe sometimes it works. I just tend not to use it now.

The routine still has a harder time following the edges of your hard surfaces models

 

The Autopo is a major feature of 3DC and is helpful to new users (before they get hand retopo experience) to effectively use the program. It should be a painless experience for the newer user. This will in turn give a more positive view of 3DC and help the selling of the program. 

Edited by digman

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The Instant meshes in the off topic thread as stirred me again to ask for the 3DC development team to work on the current Autopo in 3DC... I am not talking about features of instant meshes but just the current routine we have now. It is better after some work was done on it but it is not a complete feature as of yet in my opinion.

It is still it is a hit and miss routine at times. I know how to get a clean model to run the routine on, so my problems are not from having dirty meshes.  I also know how to apply the guide strokes correctly.

The routine at times still adds more polygons where they are not needed and less where they are needed. Example, the flat bottom part of a bust sculpture will get tons of polygons where the nose will just get few... This should be the opposite

Polygons still will overlap each other and penetrate into the surface of the model 

Painting density still on my end, just really never works... I tried a bunch of times... Maybe sometimes it works. I just tend not to use it now.

The routine still has a harder time following the edges of your hard surfaces models

 

The Autopo is a major feature of 3DC and is helpful to new users (before they get hand retopo experience) to effectively use the program. It should be a painless experience for the newer user. This will in turn give a more positive view of 3DC and help the selling of the program. 

+1. On primitive shaped objects, it works well, but anything with remotely complex shapes and it requires too many REDO's > Tweaks > REDO's > Tweaks....and after an hour or more passes by, trying all these different things, you come to realize you could have gotten the whole thing done in a fraction of the time, if you used the manual tools. This is why I really don't bother trying Auto-Retopo on anything but primitive shaped objects.

 

That still makes it useful, when you have a bunch of those types of objects to Retopo...such as eyes, teeth, horns, belts, bracelets, buttons, etc. But I wouldn't bother trying it on the head of a character. I was able to find a way to get a decent result on a head, once, but it took hours trying different guides and settings, and I HAD to uncheck "DECIMATE IF"...which took over an hour to calculate. I told Andrew about this and he said "Of course it will take a long time" but I couldn't get a decent result otherwise.

 

So, yeah...it STILL needs a lot of work. For anything moderately complex, it is still far short of ZRemesher, IMHO.

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LOL... I was not trying to worry anyone,,, Voxels are not going to be removed as it is a major part of 3DC. I did not imply that at all... I am just a user mentioning something I heard in a video. I in no way implied that voxels were going to be removed. You do not have to be worried about voxel mode...   :look:

 

Guys, I knew Voxels weren't slated to be tossed, I just wanted to mention that I use them exclusively.

 

Actually I was going to say "I use Voxels the majority of the time so here's my VOTE for them not going away..." but opt'd to be lazy and type only what I typed.

 

I knew (well assumed / hoped) that there weren't any plans to eliminate them.

 

Perhaps I should have typed "TLDT; Please don't remove the full Voxels..."  (TLDT - too lazy, didn't type)

 

 

-Will

Edited by WillBellJr

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Guys, I knew Voxels weren't slated to be tossed, I just wanted to mention that I use them exclusively.

 

Actually I was going to say "I use Voxels the majority of the time so here's my VOTE for them not going away..." but opt'd to be lazy and type only what I typed.

 

I knew (well assumed / hoped) that there weren't any plans to eliminate them.

 

Perhaps I should have typed "TLDT; Please don't remove the full Voxels..."  (TLDT - too lazy, didn't type)

 

 

-Will

Voxels are great for many Boolean type Operations, but for sheer sculpting, Surface mode is leaps and bounds ahead. Many more brushes, not including LiveClay brushes...especially the CreaseClay brush which should be your go-to brush for any sharp creases, wrinkles, etc. There are more options for the brushes, including the Pinch brush....and you have the Artman brush presets, all based on Surface mode brushes. You really should experiment with them. I used to be big on Voxel mode sculpting over Surface mode, but since V4.1 was released....not anymore. There are some voxel-only brushes that are nice, like Scrape, but on the whole, Surface mode is just a better option.

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What suits one artist doesn't particularly suit another. And while some artists may find it difficult to attain a particular look using one set of tools, others may find it very straightforward. Restricting a toolset because of a theoretical or perceived advantage of one set over another can be in danger of making very large assumptions. The process is the people, not the tools.

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Some bureaucracy:

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2048 - UV Complex checker gets inverted in the viewport

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2049 - If specific conditions are met, stacking UVs will flip the copied islands

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2050 - When stacking islands, the copied one will not always orient properly

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2051 - Copied island gets distorted when stacked upon the identical target island

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3DC beta version 4.5.23 Windows 64 bit non cuda... Windows 7

 

This might just be me but is anyone else noticing a little or some lag when switching rooms or tools...

I do not remember this lag effect in prior beta versions

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3DC beta version 4.5.23 Windows 64 bit non cuda... Windows 7

 

This might just be me but is anyone else noticing a little or some lag when switching rooms or tools...

I do not remember this lag effect in prior beta versions

I once had this problem and I managed to narrow it to a folder called ToolsPresets. After removing it, everything was super fast again. I am not sure what this folder is responsible for though, as I didn't notice any changes in 3D-Coat after deleting it.

You might want to try it, just be sure to keep the backup.

You could also try deleting the temp folder, just be sure to store your Theme settings somewhere first.

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I once had this problem and I managed to narrow it to a folder called ToolsPresets. After removing it, everything was super fast again. I am not sure what this folder is responsible for though, as I didn't notice any changes in 3D-Coat after deleting it.

You might want to try it, just be sure to keep the backup.

You could also try deleting the temp folder, just be sure to store your Theme settings somewhere first.

Removing "ToolPresets" folder did the trick... Thanks  :drinks:

 

I did save a backup of the folder just in case... Seems like in your case as well as mine, no damage done to 3DC or my settings, brush presets etc... The folder seems like some internal backup system... When you remove the folder, then restart 3DC, the program recreates the folder. There is only one item located in the folder which is: "StdPen". Now work for awhile in 3DC. Close and reopen 3DC and more items have been added to the ToolPresets folder... Some chain of events is causing the bug, no time though to hunt down atm... The only major thing I have done is create a new brush preset or two...

This is the folder under Users \ MyDocuments \ 3D-CoatV45 in case anyone is wondering...

Edited by digman
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Edit Smart Material and then immediately hitting 'Cancel' is deleting the smart material. Just lost my Default Material (which was very useful for decals). Tried it on another (dispensable) smart material and that one went bye-bye too.

 

:excl:

 

Can anyone advise on restoring the Default Material (found under the 'default' tab) without a reinstall?


Win7 64

3DC 4.5.23

Edited by Tarby
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