V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

[Malo]

You mean it depends, maybe, on the polycount and not on the object size itself?

 

That means you cant extrude two objects with different polycounts, but with the same value in exturde, to the same size.

It is always trial and error to create both objects with the same offset.

Thats very awkward.

 

 

[philnolan3d]

Not sure if this was mentioned. In 4.0.12E I can't rotate the light with any of the PicMat shaders.

[artman]

Not sure if this was mentioned. In 4.0.12E I can't rotate the light with any of the PicMat shaders.

Do you mean when Cast Shadows is  ON or in Render room?

 

Because picmat shaders have their own lighting embedded,this is what picmat shaders are ,they never were complatible with

rotation of light in voxel room.Its like matcaps or litspheres; lighting is in the shaderball itself.

[philnolan3d]

Um Yeah I feel dumb. I opened a project and the lighting looked weird so my first thought was to rotate it and nothing happened. Turns out the real problem was that the light intensity had gotten turned down.

[rshaw]

shouldn't a pose tool have hard start and stop points? the stop point being the pivot point. i guess the gradient is there to try to preserve then mesh upstream of the pivot but seems to be more trouble than it is worth. 

[alvordr]

Hey.  I'm using 4.0.13 and tried to merge two layers that are in Surface Mode (can't go back to Voxel mode for some reason LOL).  However, they won't merge.  Upon trying a Merge To...nothing apparently happens.  Anyone else having this issue?

 

EDIT:  I realized that my layers were cached, so of course I couldn't get back to Voxel Mode...now fixed, but I still can't get these layers to merge.

 

POST EDIT:  LOL..so I tried doing the merge again and it worked.  I have to do it twice?

Edited January 22, 2014 by alvordr

[Javis]

shouldn't a pose tool have hard start and stop points? the stop point being the pivot point. i guess the gradient is there to try to preserve then mesh upstream of the pivot but seems to be more trouble than it is worth. 

 

 

The stop points are for the gradient, meanwhile you can also use the gizmo to control the the selection in the gradient. It gives the user more control over what happens, for example, you can move the gizmo at a completely different point than the gradient. I use it regularly because of this.

Hey.  I'm using 4.0.13 and tried to merge two layers that are in Surface Mode (can't go back to Voxel mode for some reason LOL).  However, they won't merge.  Upon trying a Merge To...nothing apparently happens.  Anyone else having this issue?

 

EDIT:  I realized that my layers were cached, so of course I couldn't get back to Voxel Mode...now fixed, but I still can't get these layers to merge.

 

POST EDIT:  LOL..so I tried doing the merge again and it worked.  I have to do it twice?

 

 

Sounds like a bug. Did you report it?

[alvordr]

No, because I've learned to check to see if it's just my copy/install or user error on my part, or a bug.  I'm going to install the latest beta and see if that fixes things.

Edited January 22, 2014 by alvordr

[rshaw]

ahh, makes sense, thanks

[Javis]

No, because I've learned to check to see if it's just my copy/install or user error on my part, or a bug.  I'm going to install the latest beta and see if that fixes things.

 

I hear that. I do that every time I hit a bug. Trash configs. If still happening, check for a new beta build. If still happening, file report. Let us know how it goes!

 

ahh, makes sense, thanks

 

My pleasure.

[AbnRanger]

shouldn't a pose tool have hard start and stop points? the stop point being the pivot point. i guess the gradient is there to try to preserve then mesh upstream of the pivot but seems to be more trouble than it is worth. 

It's helpful to have some falloff, so that there is a soft transition just beyond the selected part. The problem is that transition/falloff is to far up the cage to be useful. 3D Coat is effectively applying soft/gradient selection, under the hood...but it's not letting the user determine how it's applied. That's the root of the problem.

[artman]

I like the pose tool gradient,I think its perfect. To control its sharpness I use Proxy Mode+ Smooth pose selection.

Global smoothing on lower decimated proxies will get the gradient very soft and original/higher res will keep it very sharp.

Its the same in Zbrush using transpose with subd levels and blur mask.

 

But lattice gradient and pose selection gradient are 2 different things.

Personnaly I dont use lattice so I cant say...but you cant expect smooth bending between 2 points...without a a third point.

In Don's video if there was no gradient between the third and fifth ring of points the arm would just break very harshly.

I think this is what Andrew is explaining.The falloff here only encompass one ring....it cannot be sharper because there is no additional ring.

Even any curves or fancy new setting would not change anything about this...an edge in 3d can never be bent.

Only additional rings could provide sharper/softer gradient on that particular selection.

 

Edit:also I really dont understand why a lattice is used to bend the arm in that video. Proxy mode 8x(decimated)+ smooth pose selection 2-4times would provide very nice bending. IMO lattice is really for global tweaking of form. Maybe its because Im too much used to pose in Zb with transpose....

[AbnRanger]

I like the pose tool gradient,I think its perfect. To control its sharpness I use Proxy Mode+ Smooth pose selection.

Global smooting on lower decimated proxies will get the gradent very soft and original/higher res will keep it very sharp.

Its the same in Zbrush with transpose and blur mask.

 

But lattice gradient and pose selection gradient are 2 different things.

Personnaly I dont use lattice so I cant say...but you cant expect smooth bending between 2 points...without a a third point

In Don's video if there was no gradient between the third and fifth ring of points the arm would just break very harshly.

I think this is what Andrew is explaining.The falloff here only encompass one ring....it cannot be sharper because there is no additional ring.

Even any curve or fancy new setting would not change anything about this...an edge in 3d can never be bent.

Only additional rings could provide sharper/softer gradient on that particular selection.

 

Edit:also I really dont understand why a lattice is used to bend the arm in that video. Proxy mode 8x(decimated)+ smooth pose selection 4times would provide very nice bending. IMO lattice is really for global tweaking of form. Maybe its because Im too much used to pose in Zb with transpose....

The Lattice is for that purpose...to be able to make more adjustments along a given selection. An arm is a perfect example. It's like skinning a rig in 3ds Max. Joints typically have shorter/sharper gradient falloffs than you would see in between the joints...like the forearm, upper arm, thigh, etc. This, if you wanted to pose a limb in 3D Coat, you pretty much can forget using a lattice, as this gradient falloff issue makes it unpractical to use.

 

I mentioned in one of my previous posts that the artist has no ability to control where the loops/edgesegments are placed on a lattice. The options are too basic and arbitrary. This is why I asked...at a minimum...for the Pose tool to have the same Lattice Options as the Primitives tool has. This inconsistency is killing me. In the Primitives tool, you could set more than 4 segments along a lattice, if you wanted. You only have a handful of presets to choose from, with the Pose tool.

 

Same goes for the gradient falloff between the loops/segments. No control means you have use only the value 3D Coat gives you or you have to forget using the lattice altogether. I know of no way to properly bend/rotate the elbow or wrist using a lattice, in this current state. Therefore this lack of control defeats the whole purpose behind the lattice.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AbnRanger

[AbnRanger]

Another inconsistency that is frustrating to me, and I'm sure to new users as well...is when Andrew adds a new tool, often there is no tool-tip to accompany it. Even now, there are a few new tools with no tool-tip and some, with no icon, either.

 

Some tools have tips and others don't. Imagine how that looks to someone evaluating 3D Coat for the first time. Can't be good.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AbnRanger

[artman]

The Lattice is for that purpose...to be able to make more adjustments along a given selection. An arm is a perfect example. It's like skinning a rig in 3ds Max. Joints typically have shorter/sharper gradient falloffs than you would see in between the joints...like the forearm, upper arm, thigh, etc. This, if you wanted to pose a limb in 3D Coat, you pretty much can forget using a lattice, as this gradient falloff issue makes it unpractical to use.

 

I mentioned in one of my previous posts that the artist has no ability to control where the loops/edgesegments are placed on a lattice. The options are too basic and arbitrary. This is why I asked...at a minimum...for the Pose tool to have the same Lattice Options as the Primitives tool has. This inconsistency is killing me. In the Primitives tool, you could set more than 4 segments along a lattice, if you wanted. You only have a handful of presets to choose from, with the Pose tool.

 

Same goes for the gradient falloff between the loops/segments. No control means you have use only the value 3D Coat gives you or you have to forget using the lattice altogether. I know of no way to properly bend/rotate the elbow or wrist using a lattice, in this current state. Therefore this lack of control defeats the whole purpose behind the lattice.

I still dont understand why you use a lattice to make a selection...when you can just make a selection.

Its easy to get any soft/sharp variation of your selection using proxy mode and smooth pose selection.

Its not because you dont see the vertices that you dont have control over soft selection,actually its much easier to get full control over gradient that way because you have better control over amount of vertices via proxy mode,while the amount of vertices in FFD boxes is very limited.

Lattice is a a deformation cage its not a skinning tool.

Again maybe it is because I too much used of posing that way:

 

IMO Lattice is really a global deformation tool to tweak proportions and stuff and definitely not the way to go to do joint bending and posing,lasso selection is much better.Anyway,everybody has its own method. But I would be far from calling call Pose tool "unusable" like you as its on par with ZB at the moment..even better because TransposeMaster brings all subtools to level1 subd while 3Dcoat let you decide the mesh density of each of your sub-objects .

[alvordr]

OMG, that new 3d Selection Tool couldn't have come at a better time!  I'm so super happy with how this works, as I was literally thinking how much trouble it will be to redo some armor on a game character I'm working on for a client with the way the other selection worked.  I recall this being a pain, but had already done it, so it wasn't a big deal, until I realized today that I needed to recreate that armor.  Whew!  Thanks Andrew!

 

One thing I think would help with this in combination with the VoxLayer tool would be to be able to define how strong the border style is and even create a custom border style.

Edited January 23, 2014 by alvordr

[alvordr]

Oh noes!  I also realized that the normal spline point curve tool in the E-Panel now doesn't work, as it used to.  See the before and after applying it with an inverted Carve Tool action (you can easily see now that there is a huge offset from the selection line where the tool action should have occurred):

 

 

Edited January 23, 2014 by alvordr

[alvordr]

Hmmm...it seems that offset is applied no matter what kind of E-Panel option I use.  It also happens when using the cut-off tool.

EDIT:  OK, I'm a moron.  I just realized I was in the wrong camera mode.  Changing to orthographic mode fixed it.

Edited January 23, 2014 by alvordr

[AbnRanger]

I still dont understand why you use a lattice to make a selection...when you can just make a selection.

Its easy to get any soft/sharp variation of your selection using proxy mode and smooth pose selection.

Its not because you dont see the vertices that you dont have control over soft selection,actually its much easier to get full control over gradient that way because you have better control over amount of vertices via proxy mode,while the amount of vertices in FFD boxes is very limited.

Lattice is a a deformation cage its not a skinning tool.

Again maybe it is because I too much used of posing that way:

 

IMO Lattice is really a global deformation tool to tweak proportions and stuff and definitely not the way to go to do joint bending and posing,lasso selection is much better.Anyway,everybody has its own method. But I would be far from calling call Pose tool "unusable" like you as its on par with ZB at the moment..even better because TransposeMaster brings all subtools to level1 subd while 3Dcoat let you decide the mesh density of each of your sub-objects .

You have to make a lot of selections to pose the arm, leg, fingers, etc. But with a Lattice deformer, it makes it much easier to select the entire limb > assign/fit an FFD cage to the selected part and quickly pose each part...and with a standard transform gizmo...to include the ability to quickly move the pivot point. With the options I asked Andrew about, it would make Posing much easier and more fluid. Just because you don't use the FFD cage, it doesn't mean others don't, and don't want it refined a bit.

 

I also really would like to see Andrew use CUDA on the Pose tool. Just this morning I did a lot of sculpting work, cached the layer, and when I tried to un-cache it, 3D Coat would crash every time. On a moderately detailed or complex model, I don't want to be FORCED to cache dozens of layers...simply because Andrew won't take the time to use CUDA on the tool (like he did on CUDA SMOOTH BOOST and the other voxel brushes). It scares me to cache, because I've been bitten in the bum several times in the past, with it.

 

I have scene files that are now garbage because of this. Time to get CUDA involved, so we aren't so reliant on a dangerous/destructive tool.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AbnRanger

[artman]

 Just this morning I did a lot of sculpting work, cached the layer, and when I tried to un-cache it, 3D Coat would crash every time.

This is very important thing to reproduce and fix,you should send file before uncaching to Andrew.Personally I use proxy mode exhaustively with no crashes so far,only 2 explosions occurred on about a hundred caching/unchaching events where I use mostly pose/move tool. It would be great if it would be rock solid in 4.1.Probably not so easy to reproduce/fix.

[AbnRanger]

This is very important thing to reproduce and fix,you should send file before uncaching to Andrew.Personally I use proxy mode exhaustively with no crashes so far,only 2 explosions occurred on about a hundred caching/unchaching events where I use mostly pose/move tool. It would be great if it would be rock solid in 4.1.Probably not so easy to reproduce/fix.

The problem is that I tried to upload the file to the server, and for some reason, they LOWERED the size limit to 300mb. I don't know of many scenes I work on in 3D Coat, that is that small. Most are closer to 1GB...and it's not our fault 3D Coat has such bloated sizes. Guess we'll have to resort to using other storage sources

[artman]

The problem is that I tried to upload the file to the server, and for some reason, they LOWERED the size limit to 300mb. I don't know of many scenes I work on in 3D Coat, that is that small. Most are closer to 1GB...and it's not our fault 3D Coat has such bloated sizes. Guess we'll have to resort to using other storage sources

delete every layers except the problematic cached layer.

[Carlosan]

Send up 2GB with

https://www.wetransfer.com/

[Malo]

Found a little Bug or is that the way it works?

 

1. I have created an object via VoxLayer from a Surface Object.

2. I switched to Voxel Mode to create some details

3. I switch back to Surface Mode and want to add mor details.

 

But now i get these "holes" on the surface.

Take a look at this what i mean.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLSIjC7mpVM&feature=youtu.be

 

It makes no difference what brush or tool i use.

In Voxel Mode everything looks fine so far.

 

Anybody an idea whats going wrong here?

 

[mifth]

I found if i substract a model in SurfaceMode, then i'll get artifacts in LiveClay tools.

Task:

http://3d-coat.com:8081/mantis/view.php?id=1392

 

VideoTest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYH_s_XfeM#t=59

 

3DCoat 4.0.13A

[JoseConseco]

Malo, I can confirm that for most of LC general brush presets I have. It seems that at maximum brush displacement there is some problem

 

This may be related to masking bug I submitted recently

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1390

All of those gives same ugly artifacts. Problem disappears when buildup option is enabled

Edited January 24, 2014 by JoseConseco

[Malo]

Thanks Jose

Looks like there are some problems with the brushes.

After some testing i think i have found the problem.

 

This Bug causes everytime when i use a very thin object in Surface Mode and Ignore Back faces are enabled.

The Tool tryes to dont affect the oposite side of the object but it cant.

As smaller the brush size is, as stronger comes the artefacts.

 

If i uncheck Ignore Back faces then the artefacts dont appear.

 

Could anybody confirm that?

 

[Monkeybrain]

I have sometimes problems with the blob tool its unusable until a new start, and if Its working bad I have also the brush-loooking from the Plane-Tool there ...

Edited January 25, 2014 by Monkeybrain

[Andrew Shpagin]

Updated to 4.0.14A

- Undo/Redo for Pose tool works correctly now

- Pose tool got super important addition - selection spline profile + free form deformation strictness.

- [forgot to mention in 14] Cloth relax in Retopo room to make all islands edges to be nicely corresponding to each other, important to decrease square/length trash to very minimal degree.

- LiveClay-like brushes are well compatible now with boolean operations - no explosions/legs/stretched triangles on edges, no broken edges outside of pen influence.

- export vector displacement accessible after baking as well.

[Andrew Shpagin]

The problem is that I tried to upload the file to the server, and for some reason, they LOWERED the size limit to 300mb. I don't know of many scenes I work on in 3D Coat, that is that small. Most are closer to 1GB...and it's not our fault 3D Coat has such bloated sizes. Guess we'll have to resort to using other storage sources

Agree, it is super-important. If you have save where 3D-Coat crashes after uncaching - it will be super-useful. You may use google drive to send rar-ed file. Or use rar to split in 3-4 parts. Fixing this is one of top-priory.