V4.5 BETA (experimental)

[Taros]

...

 

Painting density seems to have no effect or still is buggy... 

 

I am impressed with the results at times but still it crashes sometimes, density painting is buggy and sometimes the routine still will produce strange results depending upon the model... 

...

Interesting. I've never had this problems. Density works fine with my settings. Are you able to show the model?

[Taros]

Exact same settings only with 10,000 polys.

This took about an hour to run through.

I'm going to have to try this with Voxelize before Quadrangulation

Test the 5 star settings in my recent test I've published on my blog. The result should actually be much better

[Taros]

I believe that the best method for retopology would be a combination of manual and automatic retopology. It could be called "semi-automatic retopo".

For example, we could create some poly rings and/or poly stars to dictate exact desired edgeflow, and then we could use Raul's new Fill Holes algorithm (in the Retopo Room) to fill in the rest of the polygons automatically.

Essentially Raul's Fill Holes algorithm could be improved to act like a very advanced Bridge Tool, and it would figure out how to make all the necessary connections between the poly rings that we have already established manually on the surface.

I think the problem with the current automatic retopology function is that there is a lack of exact control where edges and polygons will end up. If we could first be allowed to create a simple "frame" on the mesh (for the important polygons), then it would be nice to let 3D-Coat fill in the rest of the "inbetween" polygons for us automatically.

The new Semi-Automatic Retopo algorithm would therefore be a combination of the Fill Holes Retopo Tool and the existing Autopo Tool. It would require a manual setup of a polygon enclosing frame and then we could run the algorithm to fill in the rest for us.

Imagine drawing a ring of polygons around the joining area between an arm and a torso, another ring around the waist, a final ring around the neck, then run the Semiautopo routine by clicking on the torso area, and the algorithm would fill in the entire torso area for you by bridging everything between your three established poly rings, keeping their exact placement and number of polygons intact.

After all, the hardest part of retopology is figuring out how to correctly connect patches of polygons on a surface (by reducing/increasing the number of edges from one patch to another, or altering the flow direction between patches with stars). If those complicated connections could be automated for us then that would save a lot of our time and effort.

I believe having manual, semi-automatic control would be better than changing settings in a fully automatic retopo wizard and running it over and over again, hoping you will eventually get a decent result.

Doesn't anyone else want a fast semi-automatic retopology tool/workflow option like that in 3D-Coat? I think the existing Fill Holes Tool and existing Autopo could be altered/tweaked a bit to make it a reality.

Your ideas are like a deja vu for me. Andrew got a concept I worked out that fulfills your needs. I can't say when or if it will be implemented but Andrew and Raul liked my ideas. So let us be surprised...

[TimmyZDesign]

Your ideas are like a deja vu for me. Andrew got a concept I worked out that fulfills your needs. I can't say when or if it will be implemented but Andrew and Raul liked my ideas. So let us be surprised...

Wow! Really? I wrote that long post and I thought that probably everybody would just ignore it, think I was being crazy, and it would be forgotten quickly...but it is great to hear that other people are thinking about the problems of retopo in the same way that I am!

Hopefully Andrew and Raul will build a tool like that for us!

Honestly I think it might actually be easier for them to make a super Bridge Tool for intelligently autofilling user-defined sections of a mesh, instead of trying to make the current autopo algorithm perfect for covering an entire mesh all at once. Autofilling smaller parts would be faster at least.

In any case, thank you for giving me hope Taros!

[TimmyZDesign]

Oh, and another idea I had:

It might even be good enough if Andrew just made a tool which auto-detected sharp edges and automatically put a spline along those edges, then the user could more easily use the Stroke Tool to manually finish the retopo of a hard surface object. What makes hard surface manual retopo difficult is putting the strokes exactly along those sharp edges. If the strokes were put there for you automatically, then finishing the manual retopo wouldn't be as difficult.

[Taros]

If Andrew realise my ideas, then it should work much easier and with more control than you think... My ideas are not all the same like yours, but leads into the very same direction. I am very hopeful too. Autopo is not all.

[TimmyZDesign]

Great to hear it! Thanks again Taros!

[L'Ancien Regime]

Test the 5 star settings in my recent test I've published on my blog. The result should actually be much better

 

 

 

I just tried it; 2 minute  computational time instead of over an hour and far fewer artifacts to clean up by hand, Negligible in fact. And this was done from the surface mode, not the voxel mode.

 

 

 

 

Very nice, thanks.

Edited July 6, 2015 by L'Ancien Regime

[Taros]

I just tried it; 2 minute  computational time instead of over an hour and far fewer artifacts to clean up by hand, Negligible in fact. And this was done from the surface mode, not the voxel mode.

 

 

 

 

Very nice, thanks.

Looks good.

[L'Ancien Regime]

Looks good.

 

Andrew pioneered autoretopology. It's good to see him get back on top of it and rival Zremesher.

[digman]

OK, the routine is night and day difference compared to the old one. I will still play the devil's advocate though. I just do not want this new routine to get pushed to the back burner like the other one did. The problems of the old routine gave a lot of new users headaches and for me I just stopped using it... 

Now this new routine needs to be tested by many users in the open beta with different models over time and Andrew would need to continue to update and fix the problems that arise with the new auto retopo routine till it is rock solid...

 

1st picture is with no manual painted density.

2nd picture is manual painted density set to (6). There is no difference in the amount of polygon placed on the face area. I had painted the face from the top of forehead including the horns to the jaw line and the ears as well.

Last picture shows a double auto retopo mesh created. I had adjusted the x symmetry plane in the sculpt room as it was slightly off on the model using global space in the symmetry plane toolbox. The routine appears to remember the old location of the x symmetry plane and it created a double retopo mesh. This needs to work correctly.

 

I am using your settings Taros plus this is a brand new clean install of Windows 4.5.04, 64 bit. I completed wiped the older beta version from the hard drive in all areas. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by digman

[Carlosan]

0001492: Autoretopo density modulator have no effect

 

0001941: Auto-density influence multiplier have no effect

[Taros]

OK, the routine is night and day difference compared to the old one. I will still play the devil's advocate though. I just do not want this new routine to get pushed to the back burner like the other one did. The problems of the old routine gave a lot of new users headaches and for me I just stopped using it... 

Now this new routine needs to be tested by many users in the open beta with different models over time and Andrew would need to continue to update and fix the problems that arise with the new auto retopo routine till it is rock solid...

 

1st picture is with no manual painted density.

2nd picture is manual painted density set to (6). There is no difference in the amount of polygon placed on the face area. I had painted the face from the top of forehead including the horns to the jaw line and the ears as well.

Last picture shows a double auto retopo mesh created. I had adjusted the x symmetry plane in the sculpt room as it was slightly off on the model using global space in the symmetry plane toolbox. The routine appears to remember the old location of the x symmetry plane and it created a double retopo mesh. This needs to work correctly.

 

I am using your settings Taros plus this is a brand new clean install of Windows 4.5.04, 64 bit. I completed wiped the older beta version from the hard drive in all areas. 

Density:

After reading your post I started a new test. 1st without setting a density value and later with a value of 2. Later then a density value of 6. The first changed value seems to stay permanently. Yes, this seems to be a bug. So I can confirm this. Changing density is not possible after you have set it once.

 

Symmetry:

Can't reproduce this. I've changed the symmetry posiiton twice and had no problems here. The Autopo routine always worked like expected and used the new symmetry position for the retopo. Are you shure your model is really symmetrical?

Is the virtual mirror mode off?

[Vipera]

Hm.. What about this? Something you expect?

Taros, thank you for your AUTOPO settings! It is getting better now.

[digman]

@taros... The model was imported with symmetry off centered. Used 3dc to correct it in the sculpt room using the pick option in the symmetry tool panel. Then I copied one side to the other to make sure the x axis was dead centered.

I very seldom use virtual symmetry and it was turned off.