3D-Coat 3.1 updates thread

[philnolan3d]

Ok,Ok I found solution.

You need to have "manipulate" checker box active in the new uppertab options.

It seems Andrew cooked up a whole new UVtool for 3DC users.

Oh, OK thanks, I got it now.

[rimasson]

Some thoughts on the 3.1.07 Uv editor

Hello Andrew.

Firs, thanks for your hard work on the Uv editor

I've got nevertheless some concerns :

Symetrical Uv editing :

when i activate the symetry, and i want to mark seams or edge loops in the 3d view, the cutting is not always symetrical.

In Uv layout, you'll have to set first a topological symetry plane first. i think that it's more clever.

You could use the topo symetry taht you created for painting, maybe ?

I dont' like the Uv preview window as it is.

first, when i opened 3Dcoat, the window was collapsed, and it took a while to figure out HOW open it.

Then , i would like to zoom in the window, but I can't. I can only resize this window.

I miss a standart Uv window

Third, i often use multiple Uv sets on my models, (from 0,0 to 1,1, then from 1,0 to 2,1...) and, only Uv between 0 and 1 are displayed IN the window

Uv beyond 0 and 1 are displayed outside the window.

I also miss a tool to define and assign different materials in regard to the different Uv sets i'd like to create (from 0,0 to 1,1 : Material A, then from 0,1 to 1,2 : material 2...

I'd like to have an improved edgeloop tool, to create restricted edgeloop, both in the 3d view, and in the Uv window, by selecting 2 edged that define the restricted loop, then by selecting with the edgeloop tool all the edges between.

I'd like to be able to select edges, faces and vertices in the 3d view, and to use a brush to select them.

When i use the brush to relax the Uvs, does the brush relax Uvs using an algo that prevent distortion or dose the brush simply 'relax' Uvs, without regard to the topo ?

Finally, i'd like to restrict the effect of the Brush to 1 Uv island at a time. It's tedious to move Uv when i have many Uv islands close to each other.

[Javis]

Ok,Ok I found solution.

You need to have "manipulate" checker box active in the new uppertab options.

It seems Andrew cooked up a whole new UVtool for 3DC users.

Yep, I bugged Andrew for months now about the UV tools. I recorded a video demonstrating how I thought the tools should work. Looks like he implemented most of my ideas.

Also the gizmo problem you guys are having; Look at the attached image.

[Javis]

Some thoughts on the 3.1.07 Uv editor

Hello Andrew.

Firs, thanks for your hard work on the Uv editor

I've got nevertheless some concerns :

Symetrical Uv editing :

when i activate the symetry, and i want to mark seams or edge loops in the 3d view, the cutting is not always symetrical.

In Uv layout, you'll have to set first a topological symetry plane first. i think that it's more clever.

You could use the topo symetry taht you created for painting, maybe ?

Yep, that would be ideal.

I dont' like the Uv preview window as it is.

first, when i opened 3Dcoat, the window was collapsed, and it took a while to figure out HOW open it.

Agreed, the uv preview tab and the UV texture editor tab should be one and the same.

Then , i would like to zoom in the window, but I can't. I can only resize this window.

I miss a standart Uv window

Third, i often use multiple Uv sets on my models, (from 0,0 to 1,1, then from 1,0 to 2,1...) and, only Uv between 0 and 1 are displayed IN the window

Uv beyond 0 and 1 are displayed outside the window.

The problem with having something like this, is that not all applications see outside of the UV space of 0,1.

I also miss a tool to define and assign different materials in regard to the different Uv sets i'd like to create (from 0,0 to 1,1 : Material A, then from 0,1 to 1,2 : material 2...

Yes this would be nice.

I'd like to have an improved edgeloop tool, to create restricted edgeloop, both in the 3d view, and in the Uv window, by selecting 2 edged that define the restricted loop, then by selecting with the edgeloop tool all the edges between.

Completely agree! I requested this months ago.

I'd like to be able to select edges, faces and vertices in the 3d view, and to use a brush to select them.

Requested months ago as well, I hope this can be implemented.

When i use the brush to relax the Uvs, does the brush relax Uvs using an algo that prevent distortion or dose the brush simply 'relax' Uvs, without regard to the topo ?

I believe that it tries to prevent too much distortion, but it wont stop entirely before it starts to distort. It does a pretty good job of not distorting too much from what I can gather.

Finally, i'd like to restrict the effect of the Brush to 1 Uv island at a time. It's tedious to move Uv when i have many Uv islands close to each other.

Just select one island at a time with island mode activated, then change to brush mode.

[jacobo]

The "Check for updates" doesn't function as it should. While mine was still 3.1.0.6, I clicked on it and I got the message that my version of 3DC was up to date. Also, I'd like to comment on re-uploads of the current versions, whereas sometimes I can see many people (like myself) missing their announcements and running into problems that have been addressed in re-uploads. Their version id's should either be re-adjusted or/and the application should be made aware of these changes as it's sometimes not so possible to frequently check and see if Andrew posted a reply whether if the current version has been updated.

As for the re-design of the UV editor, I totally agree with Rimasson and Goethefaust's ideas. A UV editor a-la Bodypaint/C4D could be quite useful. The current UV image editor could be updated to accommodate 0 to 1 and beyond UV space on both axis and allow all aforementioned low level UV adjustments with a selected texture and/or a checker layout in the background. That way the users could easily open and close and navigate and edit inside the editor without restrictions.

Also, I can very well see the Sculpting Room becoming more and more obsolete as Voxels evolve with each release. I doubt that anyone uses it any more except for low level adjustments and such and I must say that it is not as practical to work with due to performance issues; 3DC's performance is not so great unfortunately with high raw poly counts as it is with voxels (especially with CUDA enabled) Since mesh tweaking can also be done in the retopo room, I suggest that the sculpting room be completely deprecated in the upcoming releases (But this point of view as the definition implies is very subjective as users who have been using 3DC all the way from the very beginning could still find good uses for it... To me, it seems that all 3.1+ users are using voxel volumes to sculpt/edit the models they create either from scratch or the ones that they import)

[Ghostdog]

Also, I can very well see the Sculpting Room becoming more and more obsolete as Voxels evolve with each release. I doubt that anyone uses it any more except for low level adjustments and such and I must say that it is not as practical to work with due to performance issues; 3DC's performance is not so great unfortunately with high raw poly counts as it is with voxels (especially with CUDA enabled) Since mesh tweaking can also be done in the retopo room, I suggest that the sculpting room be completely deprecated in the upcoming releases (But this point of view as the definition implies is very subjective as users who have been using 3DC all the way from the very beginning could still find good uses for it... To me, it seems that all 3.1+ users are using voxel volumes to sculpt/edit the models they create either from scratch or the ones that they import)

Please correct me if wrong but doesn't the sculpt room provide a good method of creating normal-mapped based bump-detailing? I'm not a game-model-creator, but wouldn't they voxel->retop and then choose to paint per-pixel, or paint direct, with possibly slight tweak in sculpt room with the idea that the efficiency of normal-map bump will be better than just a standard bump-map detail?

[jacobo]

Please correct me if wrong but doesn't the sculpt room provide a good method of creating normal-mapped based bump-detailing? I'm not a game-model-creator, but wouldn't they voxel->retop and then choose to paint per-pixel, or paint direct, with possibly slight tweak in sculpt room with the idea that the efficiency of normal-map bump will be better than just a standard bump-map detail?

To my knowledge, if it is normal map based detailing you want to do, the most efficient would be to per pixel paint in the paint room directly on the normal channel of a layer, for all sorts of 3DCC... If you want to get normal mapping derived from height, why take the hassle in the sculpt room especially when it comes to dealing with very fine detailing... The models in the sculpt room are subdivided uniformly all throughout and the more detail you need the more you have to subdivide the entire mesh, like in other popular apps such as mudbox and zbrush. Except for the fact that 3DC's sculpt room begins to cough badly not even half way through while the latter can handle s..t loads of raw poly count quite nicely even on 32 bit systems. But that matters not, cuz like I said, voxels can do an even better job IMHO and since its introduction to 3DC, everybody seems to use it exclusively for all tasks, no? So my subjective point is, what's the point of having it in the program as a module if the new one replaces its functionality? But then again, I might just as well be proven wrong. But these are my ideas, so...

[wailingmonkey]

jacobo, I'd have to argue against it's removal for 2 immediate reasons (that I can think of):

- it's quite handy at moving/scaling/rotating sub-objects around on complex models (if you don't want

to keep importing/exporting to another software for this capability)

- it does a very good job with 'larger-than-normals-based' edits once you've already textured

your model, but want to tweak it afterwards (it keeps the texture detail instead of turning it

to mush)

This last one is handy if, for instance, you texture your model with jeans, then want to really

accentuate the creases based upon your nice and perfect texture work...you can get stretchy

artifacts just trying to do it in the 'paint' room, whereas you can take it into the 'sculpt'

room and retain nice detail. I'd say it's mostly handy for those 'smaller' instances where you

didn't already have it done in a sculpt brought in from the voxel room or another software, but

are working in microvertex mode on a base.

But I'd guess there's been fewer users doing that since voxels got implemented...

[rimasson]

About the sculpting room :

I think that the Sculpting room is NOT OBSOLETE at all.

Voxels are great to sculpt unique models, with a unique topology, but i don't use them much , for 1 reason : they don't fit to my workflow

I work in the film industry, and often, i have to sculpt and re-use again and again models that share the same topo.

In my opinon, 3dc poly sculpting is not evolved enough yet (that's why i use mainly Zbrush for sculpting) . The sculpting room tools needs some enhancements to be useful (subdiv levels, subdiv cage mode, sculpting layers, and the new sculpting tools that you can find the int vox room)

I'm not that frustrated not to have advanced sculpting tools. I've got Zb. I'm actually interested with the Auto retopo futur improvements

I also miss some hotkeys dedicated to the Uv editor : at least L for Loops

One more thing : is it possible the width of the Seams line to have a better visual feedback ?

Btw, you did a great job with the ABf algo and function as 'to line'

Edited September 26, 2009 by rimasson

[geo_n]

About the sculpting room :

I think that the Sculpting room is NOT OBSOLETE at all.

Voxels are great to sculpt unique models, with a unique topology, but i don't use them much , for 1 reason : they don't fit to my workflow

I work in the film industry, and often, i have to sculpt and re-use again and again models that share the same topo.

In my opinon, 3dc poly sculpting is not evolved enough yet (that's why i use mainly Zbrush for sculpting) . The sculpting room tools needs some enhancements to be useful (subdiv levels, subdiv cage mode, sculpting layers, and the new sculpting tools that you can find the int vox room)

I feel the same way. I work in tv and film and pachinco games(close to videogames) and there's dozens of iteration that could happen and so far it can't be done in voxels easily. But I'm patient for Andrew to focus on multires sculpting. If its not possible in voxels just do it poly though.

I posted in this thread why we need to have poly sculpting better

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3793

[jacobo]

Like I stated in my post, mine was just a subjective opinion. I stated it knowing that people could have many uses for it that I might not see. What I understand from mesh sculpting is not just gross editing but it also entails fine detail sculpting, and my personal experience in that department hasn't been that bright cuz the sculpting room gets really clogged after you subdivide a given mesh to bear small enough polys to sculpt on. If low level mesh tweaking is where it comes in handy which I would have to agree on, I believe that mesh sculpting could be improved to support multiple resolution levels, like Andrew said is something he'll be working on concerning voxels.

[rimasson]

Like I stated in my post, mine was just a subjective opinion. I stated it knowing that people could have many uses for it that I might not see. What I understand from mesh sculpting is not just gross editing but also it also entails fine detail sculpting, and my personal experience in that department hasn't been that bright cuz the sculpting room gets really clogged if you subdivide a given mesh to bear small enough polys to sculpt on. If low level mesh tweaking is where comes in handy which I would have to agree on, I believe that mesh sculpting could be improved to support multiple resolution levels, like Andrew said is something he'll be working on concerning voxels.

Personnaly, i don't have the need to sculpt a 10 millions poly mesh.

I'm ok with 3dc polycount limits, and the current workflow that consist to first , sculpt a model, then switch to the paint room to add microdetails.

[LenyNero]

Updated to 3.1.07 (Win & OSX, Linux - slightly later)

Changes:

- ABF++ implemented [beta status]

What is ABF++ ?

[philnolan3d]

What is ABF++ ?

ABF stands for Angle Based Flattening. It is an improvement on the LSCM (Least Squares Conformal Mapping) method 3DC previously used. ABF++ is a more advanced version of the ABF system. I'm no expert, I just did some research myself when I heard about it.

[3D-TPI]

anyone else have problems with POSE TOOL in 3.1.07? xinxp64 cuda

after i use transform (to scal vox obj up a bit) the pose tool totally appears in wrong area at wrong size then where/how i drew it..

_I posted this under BUG section too..

[Andrew Shpagin]

Updated to 3.1.08 (Win & OSX, Linux version - very soon, today or tomorrow)

Changes:

- Navigation on UV preview window done

- UV preview window made dockable

- Double click in UV window will select edge loop or island in dependence on mode, Right or middle double click will select edge ring.

- If symmetry is enabled in viewport all selection operations in UV preview window will respect this symmetry.

- Symmetry in UV tool will work more predictably

- Hide/unhide selected faces on the mesh in UV tool implemented.

- in UV preview window 'A' will restore default UV layout in window, 'SHIFT-A' will fit selected objects in window.

- general retopo fix: invisible retopo layers will not be selectable to avoid possibility to modify them.

- fixed: subdividing hidden layer leads to partial opening of faces, looks like mosaic.

- fixed: brush, quads, cap, points and faces tools in retopo page was not respecting hidden faces correctly.

- fixed: incorrect work of Edge loop command in Retopo->Select->Edges mode

- fixed: Transparency on pressure dependence button in top pane was not working in DP mode

- fixed: Unwrapping symmetriacal pieces sometimes resulted with unsymmetrical islands.

- fixed: curves with spacing was not working when bound points was moved by pen (not mouse).

- ApplyUV removed from retopo tool

[Andrew Shpagin]

anyone else have problems with POSE TOOL in 3.1.07? xinxp64 cuda

after i use transform (to scal vox obj up a bit) the pose tool totally appears in wrong area at wrong size then where/how i drew it..

_I posted this under BUG section too..

I will look it.

[PalSan]

[Routb3d]

Andrew,

Ever since V31_07 I have not been able to run 3D coat on my system.

Windows 7 64bit no Cuda.

The error happens at launch and simply says "3D Coat tool has stopped working"

I have tried uninstalling, reinstalling, running in various compatibility modes.. Nothing seems to work..

Any Ideas? No one else seems to be having these problems..

Update:

I tried reinstalling V31_06 which was working perfectly. Now I get the same error in that version as well.. Please help.. I am 3Dcoat-less in Seattle..

Thanks,

IC

[3D-TPI]

I will look it.

Thank you.. cuz right now.. v 3.1.07 is runing the "weirdest" of all the 3.1 builds on my system.. I mean tools ran slower (vox sculpting lags w some tools) and it generaly feels different.. But now that i see .08 on horizon ill wait till that comes and probably things wil be runing smooth again

[Andrew Shpagin]

Andrew,

Ever since V31_07 I have not been able to run 3D coat on my system.

Windows 7 64bit no Cuda.

The error happens at launch and simply says "3D Coat tool has stopped working"

I have tried uninstalling, reinstalling, running in various compatibility modes.. Nothing seems to work..

Any Ideas? No one else seems to be having these problems..

Update:

I tried reinstalling V31_06 which was working perfectly. Now I get the same error in that version as well.. Please help.. I am 3Dcoat-less in Seattle..

Thanks,

IC

Does it happens with all versions? GL/DX? Are you using 32 or 64 bit executables?

[Andrew Shpagin]

Linux build uploaded too.

[Routb3d]

Does it happens with all versions? GL/DX? Are you using 32 or 64 bit executables?

I have only tried the 64 bit Non-Cuda executable.. After trying to update to V3.1_7 3dcoat fails to launch any version.

I am trying to run the GL version. The DX version always says Im missing a file..

[Tony Nemo]

Everybody and their brother and sister are downloading. The server is at a crawl even for this site. My broadband is working like dial-up.

[philnolan3d]

Thank you.. cuz right now.. v 3.1.07 is runing the "weirdest" of all the 3.1 builds on my system.. I mean tools ran slower (vox sculpting lags w some tools) and it generaly feels different.. But now that i see .08 on horizon ill wait till that comes and probably things wil be runing smooth again

You might be pleased. I'm seeing things moving much faster and smoother than .07 and that wasn't even slow for me.

@Andrew: I really like the new UV Preview Window. I wonder if it would be possible to get a grid in the background.

[kay_Eva]

3d-Coat is candy!! Nom nom nom nom nom nomm

[philnolan3d]

Uh oh. If you set islands to ABF, then pack the UVs it reverts them back the LSCM.

[3D-TPI]

You might be pleased. I'm seeing things moving much faster and smoother than .07 and that wasn't even slow for me.

@Andrew: I really like the new UV Preview Window. I wonder if it would be possible to get a grid in the background.

YEP Your RIGHT!! .08 works WAYYYY better.. tools fast! fast sculpts! THANKS ANDREW!

and the pose tool seems a BIT better.. but it still ends up in a differnt place that i draw it(its offset) and smaller than i draw it .. is this normal? never really used it before...

I noticed it works prety much OK if I dont apply any transform SCALE to my vox object.. but as soon as I scal my vox guy up.. the more i scale it up the more problems i get with pose tool..

[Javis]

The new UV tools are fantastic! Some seriously amazing work there Andrew.

I did find a few bugs relating to them, and some other stuff.

-When in brush mode, inside the UV preview tab, you can no longer change the size of your brush because RMB now zooms.

-When using the stock mesh of the long nosed creature, using the fill tool in DP mode causes some really giant extruded looking polygons.

-When symmetry is on, and using the brush tool in the UV preview tab, the brushing/smoothing is not applied to the island symmetrically.

-The new Hide & Unhide functions do not seem to work. While Invert Hidden & Unhide all work.

-Would it be possible to rename the "Strict" tool to "Relax"?

[kay_Eva]

I've been noticing that for the past couple of versions that it seems the muscles don't "voxelize" properly. As they seem a bit flatter than usual, almost like they are inverted. I didn't see attachments button sorry so direct link for the post.

Edit: The muscle tool is back to working correctly. I'm not sure what causes it to be flat sometimes. But it is behaving differently sometimes. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I didn't think I'd changed any of the settings.

Edit2: Okay I think I figured it out. Old tests I was using mouse. New tests I was using pen. With pen I wasn't pressing down hard enough. I'm an idiot. I didn't think it was pressure sensitive. Wow I'm dumb. Deleted irrelevent pictures.