3DCoat 2024 development thread

[Elemeno]

can we merge modelling room and sculpt room please? and have modelling as a surface mode and not a poly group that you dont need to transfer or unlink.. please would really save alot of hassle

Edited July 10, 2023 by Elemeno

[zf3d]

15 hours ago, Elemeno said:

你知道...我不太接触多边形建模方面...但是你可以在 3dcoat 中完成所有这些...用户界面不是很好，热键也不是专用于任何工作流程...但是如果你寻找它，你就会发现会找到的。

You're right, whether it's 3dmax maya silo 3dcoat or blender, there are these tools available. However, polygons are a fundamental and top priority issue that everyone must face. How to organize and streamline them? Whoever is the king of polygons will also attract a large number of users. Please take it seriously, take it seriously, and remember to take it seriously!!! Because almost 80% of people are still modeling polygons, I believe that 3dcoat can overturn this aspect and I am optimistic that 3dcoat will become the king of modeling

[ebitz]

Two issues still present on some linux distros. In Debian 12 3DCoat will crash when trying to save. I understand it is built using Ubuntu. But Ubuntu being based off of debian and Debian being stable, it should work. I beleive these issues are also present on Almalinux and Rocky Linux. Also when restarting 3DCoat I cannot load the autobackup after a crash. I have to restart again before the prompt can be clicked on. To be clear, the prompt to load the autobackup is frozen on first restart. On second restart it works. These are long standing issues.

[zf3d]

On 2023/7/10 at AM10点13分, zf3d said:

你说得对，无论是3dmax、maya silo 3dcoat还是blender，都有这些工具可用。然而，多边形是每个人都必须面对的基本且首要的问题。如何组织和精简它们？谁是多边形之王，也将吸引大量用户。请认真对待，认真对待，记得认真对待！！！因为几乎80%的人还在做多边形建模，我相信3dcoat可以颠覆这方面，乐观3dcoat会成为建模之王

Please see the attached image
Suggested images

I thought about it and provided three suggestions. I arrived late

1Adding customizable wheel shortcuts can greatly reduce tool search time. Each wheel is officially defined and can also be customized, imitating Houdini's shortcut wheel menu editing method

2Add a shortcut slider for tool parameters, filter the most commonly used tools and drag them in the view. You can also drag commonly used sliders into the scene and record them in each tool. The next time you open the tool, the slider will appear, improving the speed of finding tool options

3Add some of the most commonly used tools, such as chamfering, to control the number of chamfers, and add them to the roller operation, greatly improving interaction speed
This can be copied from modo, with customizable wheels, ctrl+wheels, etc., which will greatly improve the modeling speed

[Gorbatovsky]

38 minutes ago, zf3d said:

to control the number of chamfers, and add them to the roller operation

This is the easiest to do.
Thank you for your cooperation.

[rubeos]

I agree with the requests above but..

Roller operation no please!
In my opinion...and I think in the opinion of everyone who uses the pen stylus+tablet for both, sculpting and modeling.

Pay close attention to the controls for the pen tablet.
Offer the same options that are required above but also for the pen tablet.

The mouse is not the future for 3d/2D artists...(assuming that there will be a future for human artists )
The mouse is incredibly tiring for sculpting.
And those who sculpt with a stylus pen get used to using that for polygonal modeling as well.
Even Zbrush is behind on this concept, incredibly ....for example, sliders are not designed to be comfortable to use with the pen. For example: right and left mouse keys are on the body of pen. But forced navigation via right pen key is inconvenient and fatiguing. The best navigation combination for pen users is : alt+shift= pan; alt+click left= rotate, ctrl+alt=zoom. .
This is fortunately possible with 3Coat.
Also, those who use the pen with their right hand find it extremely easy to find the shortcuts on the left side of the keyboard.
Many addons for blender and other software still do not offer a fast alternative to the mouse wheel
The pen tablet works even with cheap models and costs only a little more than a good mouse.

The stylus pen offers an incoparably more natural and fluent experience for switching between different artistic techniques without the need to change devices: sculpting, modeling, drawing and painting (similar to holding a real brush in your hand) .

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by rubeos

[AbnRanger]

5 hours ago, rubeos said:

I agree with the requests above but..

Roller operation no please!
In my opinion...and I think in the opinion of everyone who uses the pen stylus+tablet for both, sculpting and modeling.

Pay close attention to the controls for the pen tablet.
Offer the same options that are required above but also for the pen tablet.

The mouse is not the future for 3d/2D artists...(assuming that there will be a future for human artists )
The mouse is incredibly tiring for sculpting.
And those who sculpt with a stylus pen get used to using that for polygonal modeling as well.
Even Zbrush is behind on this concept, incredibly ....for example, sliders are not designed to be comfortable to use with the pen. For example: right and left mouse keys are on the body of pen. But forced navigation via right pen key is inconvenient and fatiguing. The best navigation combination for pen users is : alt+shift= pan; alt+click left= rotate, ctrl+alt=zoom. .
This is fortunately possible with 3Coat.
Also, those who use the pen with their right hand find it extremely easy to find the shortcuts on the left side of the keyboard.
Many addons for blender and other software still do not offer a fast alternative to the mouse wheel
The pen tablet works even with cheap models and costs only a little more than a good mouse.

The stylus pen offers an incoparably more natural and fluent experience for switching between different artistic techniques without the need to change devices: sculpting, modeling, drawing and painting (similar to holding a real brush in your hand) .

 

 

I agree, totally. I never use my mouse in a 3D application or Photoshop. 

[SERGYI]

On 7/9/2023 at 8:24 PM, Hickz said:

2023.23 crashes upon start on macOS 13.4 (apple silicon M1 architecture):

Thanks for the report. "2023.23" crashes on my MacBook Pro with macOS Ventura. Please wait while I will sort out the problem.

[zf3d]

21 hours ago, rubeos said:

我同意上面的要求，但是..

滚轮操作请不要！
在我看来……我认为每个使用手写笔+平板电脑进行雕刻和建模的人都认为。

密切注意数位板的控件。
提供与上述相同的选项，但也适用于数位板。

鼠标不是 3D/2D 艺术家的未来......（假设人类艺术家会有未来）
鼠标对于雕刻来说非常累。
那些使用手写笔进行雕刻的人也习惯使用它来进行多边形建模。
甚至 Zbrush 在这个概念上也落后了，令人难以置信……例如，滑块的设计并不是为了让笔使用起来舒适。例如：鼠标左右键位于笔身上。但通过右笔键强制导航既不方便又费力。笔用户的最佳导航组合是：alt+shift=平移；alt+单击左键=旋转，ctrl+alt=缩放。。
幸运的是，3Coat 可以实现这一点。
此外，那些用右手使用笔的人会发现很容易找到键盘左侧的快捷键。
搅拌机和其他软件的许多插件仍然无法提供鼠标滚轮的快速替代品。
即使使用廉价型号，数位板也能正常工作，并且成本只比优质鼠标高一点点。

手写笔为不同艺术技巧之间的切换提供了无比自然和流畅的体验，而无需更换设备：雕刻、建模、绘图和绘画（类似于手中握着真正的画笔）。

 

Firstly, I am glad to see your reply. You have indeed facilitated some modeling work using hand drawn boards,
However, we know that hand drawn pens are used to obtain the weight of the brush. However, when modeling polygons, the weight of the hand drawn pen is meaningless. Polygon modeling is more suitable for mouse operation. I previously submitted a request to add shortcut keys for the scroll wheel, mainly for polygonal modeling, rather than sculpting modeling. Therefore, please distinguish. For example, when moving, the scroll wheel controls the soft selection range, which is a great operating experience. Blender can do this, The reason why other software is not as convenient as Blender Polygon is that it lacks humanization in operation, so I suggest 3dcoat learn from it

 

 

 

[Shift Studio]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:24 AM, Hickz said:

2023.23 crashes upon start on macOS 13.4 (apple silicon M1 architecture):

I don't even get this report. Rather, nothing happens at all. (2023.23, macOS 13.4.1)

 

[rubeos]

12 hours ago, zf3d said:

 

I have gotten used to using the tablet pen for polygonal modeling as well. From my point of view it would be important if there were ALSO options to somehow virtualize the mouse wheel on the viewport.  For example by simply moving the pen up or down in the viewport space before apply.
This way both mouse and pen users can be satisfied.
In my opinion Blender is fast with polygons, but I massively use shortcuts, positioned on the left side of the keyboard, pie menus, and pen-optimized navigation, my right hand almost never comes off the tablet. There are still several commands that are difficult to use with the pen. One brilliant thing is that you can use the same navigation commands (zoom, pan) to navigate within the menus.
I agree with you, polygonal modeling is still extensively important....also because you only do realistic curved surfaces almost only with SubD.
I also agree that we should look at the best software in a certain field of 3d work, not to copy them but to improve the working experience for users.I am not saying that 3Dcoat should have the same tools and interface as Blender, but neither should it deviate a lot from what is considered best.
After all, Blender is one of the most popular, perhaps the most widely used software....everyone has a copy of Blender on their computer, even if they use Maya. So coming from blender if you go into 3DCoat and find the modeling room with significantly different controls you won't be motivated enough to model polygons in 3DCoat.
Unless the difference in tools is justified by a unique and deep interaction with voxel tools or whatever..but I think that will be seen in the future. And in any case everything can be improved and done better, even the polygonal modeling in blender.
I apologize for the length of the post but these are topics I am passionate about and I end up writing too much

 

[animk]

No mouse wheel rolling please, I wish blender can find a way to replace mouse wheel rolling control for pen.  I am very used to model and animate in blender with pen.  Now I use the touch ring on the tablet to do the mouse wheel rolling works.

Polygonal modeling is difficult when it comes to complex hard surface modeling with a lot of bevels and boolean.  While CAD programs are good at those functions it has difficult time to create free form curvy hard surface.  I feel the balanced solution to achieve both (if not look for engineer level accuracy) is to do it in sculpting and have a nice auto retopo function to retopo the final models.

I feel the modeling room in 3d coat should not be meant to achieve complex polygonal modeling (meaning it should not compete with blender), it should be for convenience to make standard hard surface forms such as pipes, wheels, cans, bottles, bolts...etc to improve the efficiency for 3d coat's sculpting,  so we don't need to sculpt those then retopo later because we can easily make those in modeling room with nice topology by default.

Especially for design, sculpting is still the best workflow, when constantly dealing with topology, face, edge, vertex there's no much energy left for being creative.

Edited July 14, 2023 by animk

[Elemeno]

7 hours ago, animk said:

No mouse wheel rolling please, I wish blender can find a way to replace mouse wheel rolling control for pen.  I am very used to model and animate in blender with pen.  Now I use the touch ring on the tablet to do the mouse wheel rolling works.

Polygonal modeling is difficult when it comes to complex hard surface modeling with a lot of bevels and boolean.  While CAD programs are good at those functions it has difficult time to create free form curvy hard surface.  I feel the balanced solution to achieve both (if not look for engineer level accuracy) is to do it in sculpting and have a nice auto retopo function to retopo the final models.

I feel the modeling room in 3d coat should not be meant to achieve complex polygonal modeling (meaning it should not compete with blender), it should be for convenience to make standard hard surface forms such as pipes, wheels, cans, bottles, bolts...etc to improve the efficiency for 3d coat's sculpting,  so we don't need to sculpt those then retopo later because we can easily make those in modeling room with nice topology by default.

Especially for design, sculpting is still the best workflow, when constantly dealing with topology, face, edge, vertex there's no much energy left for being creative.

implementing mouse rolling wont do any damage... maybe they can hotkey something that allows us to use a slider with pens

[Sorn]

6 hours ago, Elemeno said:

implementing mouse rolling wont do any damage... maybe they can hotkey something that allows us to use a slider with pens

That would be perfect, yes.

[SERGYI]

On 7/9/2023 at 8:24 PM, Hickz said:

2023.23 crashes upon start on macOS 13.4 (apple silicon M1 architecture):

The cause of the crash is the absence of Python on the system. I have uploaded "2023.23" for macOS again. It has a code that detects Python on the "3DCoat" startup under macOS. When Python is not found, "3DCoat" for macOS displays a message box that allows you to install it. Why is "Python" not included with the "3DCoat" data files under macOS? I had a hard time when including third-party binaries with "3DCoat" for macOS. Apple's notarization service denies notarizing the "3DCoat" disk image because third-party binaries do not satisfy some rules. Those rules are satisfied inside the "3DCoat" using settings in the "Xcode" project when building the executable. But those rules cannot be satisfied when binaries are already built. Is there a sense to find a minimal set of Python files and a way to include them inside "3DCoat" for macOS data files on every disk image? Or installing once Python as a third-party prerequisite is reasonable? Please provide feedback on your experience directly to my email sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.

[SERGYI]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:05 PM, CometsoftNC said:

On Mac M1 Monterey using .17 when attempting to load a navigation preset via the camera icon the program returns to the file dialog no matter what (cancel or open).  3dcoat has to be force quit at that point.

I cannot reproduce this problem on any of my three Macs. Do you still have this problem in the latest 2023.23 for macOS?
https://pilgway.com/~sergyi/links-macOS.html
Please provide feedback directly to my email sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.

[Hickz]

20 minutes ago, SERGYI said:

The cause of the crash is the absence of Python on the system. I have uploaded "2023.23" for macOS again. It has a code that detects Python on the "3DCoat" startup under macOS. When Python is not found, "3DCoat" for macOS displays a message box that allows you to install it. Why is "Python" not included with the "3DCoat" data files under macOS? I had a hard time when including third-party binaries with "3DCoat" for macOS. Apple's notarization service denies notarizing the "3DCoat" disk image because third-party binaries do not satisfy some rules. Those rules are satisfied inside the "3DCoat" using settings in the "Xcode" project when building the executable. But those rules cannot be satisfied when binaries are already built. Is there a sense to find a minimal set of Python files and a way to include them inside "3DCoat" for macOS data files on every disk image? Or installing once Python as a third-party prerequisite is reasonable? Please provide feedback on your experience directly to my email sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.

Hi! Thank you for the update. I tried it just now, it does show the python download screen, and I downloaded/installed python. Now it starts for half a second (I see the load screen and main windows) and closes immediately with this error:

 

 

UPDATE: Ok, this is strange, I tried starting it again now, so far works as expected. I did not change anything at all, just waited a bit o_o

Edited July 16, 2023 by Hickz

[NLPLP]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:36 PM, Shift Studio said:

I don't even get this report. Rather, nothing happens at all. (2023.23, macOS 13.4.1)

 

Im having the same issue on my M2 Max Mac OS 13.4.1

[artofcomputing]

On 7/16/2023 at 10:55 AM, SERGYI said:

The cause of the crash is the absence of Python on the system. I have uploaded "2023.23" for macOS again. It has a code that detects Python on the "3DCoat" startup under macOS. When Python is not found, "3DCoat" for macOS displays a message box that allows you to install it. Why is "Python" not included with the "3DCoat" data files under macOS? I had a hard time when including third-party binaries with "3DCoat" for macOS. Apple's notarization service denies notarizing the "3DCoat" disk image because third-party binaries do not satisfy some rules. Those rules are satisfied inside the "3DCoat" using settings in the "Xcode" project when building the executable. But those rules cannot be satisfied when binaries are already built. Is there a sense to find a minimal set of Python files and a way to include them inside "3DCoat" for macOS data files on every disk image? Or installing once Python as a third-party prerequisite is reasonable? Please provide feedback on your experience directly to my email sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.

I encountered the mentioned issue at hand as shown below:

 

Regarding feedback about my current Mac experience, I would appreciate the heads up to install Python before installing 3DCoat itself, either in the requirements page, or in a installation guide shown just after downloading the software.

 

However, having a un-versioned external dependency like this could lead to more issues down the road (major Python updates with breaking API changes, different Python versions, broken installations, etc), so having a versioned Python interpreter bundled inside 3DCoat would be a much better option. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by artofcomputing
spelling issues

[Elemeno]

 

nowhere in the curves menu does the fill in projection option appear..

would be nice if it as in the drop down box as well.. 

to get this option you have to go into the curves editor tool and right click , taking you away from adding curves

[AbnRanger]

16 hours ago, Elemeno said:

 

nowhere in the curves menu does the fill in projection option appear..

would be nice if it as in the drop down box as well.. 

to get this option you have to go into the curves editor tool and right click , taking you away from adding curves

When you have an Open curve....such as a line...FILL INSIDE PROJECTION will not appear. It is a contextual option for Closed Curves only.

[Elemeno]

dustyshinigami just found a slide bug .

[DMG]

Hi all,

 

I'm still on 3DC 2023.16, as I tend to only upgrade to the 'stable' releases.  It's been a while since that version was released, and it sounds like the developers are busy adding new features and dealing with fresh bugs as they crop up.

I guess I'm just hoping the developers are doing well, and that another stable release isn't too far away. Best wishes to Andrew and the team.

Cheers, Derek

 

[zf3d]

https://b23.tv/GgESENN

New feature suggestions
My students have recently mentioned a very useful feature, which is the boundary movement tool with depth. When moving, it can cause shape deformation at all depths, as demonstrated in the first half of the video. I hope 3dcoat can be added to it

[animk]

11 hours ago, zf3d said:

https://b23.tv/GgESENN

New feature suggestions
My students have recently mentioned a very useful feature, which is the boundary movement tool with depth. When moving, it can cause shape deformation at all depths, as demonstrated in the first half of the video. I hope 3dcoat can be added to it

Yes, that's a useful feature.

[Carlosan]

On 3DC boundary movement depth depends of Brush selected

 

- Pressing + icon you can also create brushes based on Curves

 

- You can create your own library of shapes, that can be used for any sculpt tool too.

[DMG]

9 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

you can also create brushes based on Curves

That's brilliant. Had never noticed that before.

[Boozer]

v.25: When Cutoff is selected and I attempt to access the stroke menu (e panel), ui displays Flatten brushs sub menu. Cant attach an image to show.

[Boozer]

here: tried deleting the old 3dcoat folder.this is after:

[Oleg Shapov]

48 minutes ago, Boozer said:

When Cutoff is selected and I attempt to access the stroke menu (e panel)

Scroll the toolbar up or down.
Or use hotkey E.