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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 testing thread

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Switched back to 4.9.07. (edge loop tool not working here on 4.9.08)

First time I see this message, I think I understand more clearly now, once version 5 is out, sculpt layers will no longer work in old installed versions, I guess ?

I will upgrade of course, but is it possible to get an idea of the cost, and an approximate date at which this will happen ? Thanks.

image.png.c6da1401a85c1e1015bfc45684c3e6b9.png

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53 minutes ago, lesaint said:

Switched back to 4.9.07. (edge loop tool not working here on 4.9.08)

First time I see this message, I think I understand more clearly now, once version 5 is out, sculpt layers will no longer work in old installed versions, I guess ?

I will upgrade of course, but is it possible to get an idea of the cost, and an approximate date at which this will happen ? Thanks.

image.png.c6da1401a85c1e1015bfc45684c3e6b9.png

I think they are aiming for late 2nd Qtr 2020 as there is a lot of changes going on behind the scenes. The upgrade will probably be about the same (may be a small increase because they actually have added a lot of development help and it's strained their resources, naturally), but there may be some different options like Rent-to-Own (6month installment plan to owning perpetual license), and Indie license, etc. 

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4.9.08

1. The Update Preset command doesn't seem to work with the depth and radius brush curves in the Sculpting Room.

2. 3DC doesn't remember my Preset window settings from the previous session. Even if I "Clear All" my presets, then load in a new set, then shut down. The next time I open up 3DC, I have an old set of presets in the Preset window and not the ones that were there when I shut down, previously. The only way to fix this is to manually delete the presets in my Documents/3D-CoatV49/Presets folder before I open 3DC.

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10 hours ago, lesaint said:

Err.... Is the Edge Loops tool working for you guys ?
in 4.9.08 it's become the same as Mark Seams.... one at a time
shift/alt/ctrl don't do anything

What do you mean? On my side SHIFT click selects edge loop as expected. CTRL SHIFT click deselects. What I missed?

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1 minute ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

What do you mean? On my side SHIFT click selects edge loop as expected. CTRL SHIFT click deselects. What I missed?

I just tested in 4.9.08 and it works as you described.

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2 hours ago, SilverCity said:

4.9.08

1. The Update Preset command doesn't seem to work with the depth and radius brush curves in the Sculpting Room.

2. 3DC doesn't remember my Preset window settings from the previous session. Even if I "Clear All" my presets, then load in a new set, then shut down. The next time I open up 3DC, I have an old set of presets in the Preset window and not the ones that were there when I shut down, previously. The only way to fix this is to manually delete the presets in my Documents/3D-CoatV49/Presets folder before I open 3DC.

1. I changed depth and radius curves, updated preset, switched to other one, switched back, all works as expected. Possibly you unselected storing depth/radius

2. Confirmed, will be fixed.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

What do you mean? On my side SHIFT click selects edge loop as expected. CTRL SHIFT click deselects. What I missed?

It just doesn't work on my side. CTRL and SHIFT have no effect with the tool. Without, it just marks one edge.
I tried both GL and DX.

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Funny, maybe it will be like the unghosting on save.

Unghosting on save/autosave has been happening to me for a long time, but only know it happens to others too.

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@Andrew Shpagin I'm happy to report is looks like the crash with my large file that I was getting in 4.9.06  and 4.9.07 no longer occurs in the latest beta build: 4.9.08

 

I am not sure what you did to fix the crash or what the root cause was but thank you for looking into it. If I come across any other issues or crashes will let you know once I get more time to test things out.

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Subdivision bug still present V 4.9.08 and using 4x anti-aliasing crashes every time.. this is when UVs are set to 16k.  This a absolutely critical to resolve is people want to work with anything photo scanned related and keep the same quality.  Once you paint the model it's hard/time consuming to find all the displaced spikes and when brought into a 3D animation tool like iclone, the glitches become more apparent.  @Andrew Shpagin @carrots Is this even being looked into to resolve or is it a problem that's tough to crack and just shelved to instead get other simple problems fixed?  It might be ideal workaround if displacement painting in ppp mode could work with ptex mode since it doesn't use UVs then at least I could bring the model and textures into zbrush to bake out nm, ao etc because subdivision & painting is no problem there. But painting with ptex doesn't seem to get the depth from the smart materials, only alphas at this time, please change this -maybe this is the needed workflow. Perhaps a simple method to make instant compatibility would be to bake a curvature layer and in the rules add "by depth/smart material heightmap?

Maybe the fix is to not smooth the subdivision until the last subd level, this is the method people say works the best in Zbrush for painting and cross product compatibility.

Well in writing this I just tried full subdivision with no smoothing and the same glitches result (see image below the first) so maybe the UV creation has to be scaled slightly for each subdivision.

I know the anti-aliasing helps remove AO artifacts but it wont hide/remove the displacement spike artifacts at the seams.

image.thumb.png.03747c37e0594ebbbb0dc1953f4a82e0.png

Without smoothing below- same issue.

image.thumb.png.360a16b0daa97f8ea007360b72b6e376.png

 

I've been waiting patiently over a year for this fix, I have *several* models that I've been preparing for market that I'm now extremely behind in, one example below (the island) Thinking it was my fault I had remade most of them only later to see the glitches. After a while  I learned a method to detect if they were still present using AO with emission setting on (holes show black)

1900177523_TheIsland-Original.thumb.jpg.130e49338768d65b68798216f731871e.jpg

The displacement spikes show along the seams like this:

365173926_DesertCave-error_along_seams.thumb.jpg.22411b976fcf917f2fffc76fe76513bb.jpg

Maybe a workaround is a feature that will auto polish/smooth along the seams with a measure of falloff??

Edited by Ascensi
added suggestion

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Noted Issues

  • Strokes Modes like Vertex Lasso are still missing from key sculpt tools like Vox Hide. (others have since pointed this out )
  • Paint Layers no longer store depth, but commit it immediately to the surface geometry. (This problem has been occurring in the last several releases. You used to be able to paint depth details on a model in the paint room with depth in paint layers. You could then delete the layer if you didn’t like the details, or dial the depth opacity down to experiment with strength. It was amazing non-destructive workflow that’s now missing.)
  • Brush-Along-Curve spacing of brush samples is still very spread out if the curve contains any linear vertices for vox tools like SmoothFill, and Scrape.

Noted Improvements

  • The fact that code has been overhauled is great, glad to hear that kind of effort is being done.
  • Love all the new icons and UI cleanup.
  • Paint Layers Folders are so amazing. A great addition!

 

Comments

I know its still very much a beta, but I would like to see the above issues resolved over introducing other things like modifiers. Also, paint room layers with depth are perfectly good at doing non-destructive displacement.

Since it was introduced, the curves tree and curves editing tools are an amazing and essential part of 3DCoat. However, there was always something confusing to me about the way those tools were presented in the UI (could just be me though). I added an image that has my suggestions, just thinking out loud.

CurvesEditorSuggestions1.png

Edited by TreetopFlyer
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1 hour ago, TreetopFlyer said:

Noted Issues

  • Strokes Modes like Vertex Lasso are still missing from key sculpt tools like Vox Hide. (others have since pointed this out )
  • Paint Layers no longer store depth, but commit it immediately to the surface geometry. (This problem has been occurring in the last several releases. You used to be able to paint depth details on a model in the paint room with depth in paint layers. You could then delete the layer if you didn’t like the details, or dial the depth opacity down to experiment with strength. It was amazing non-destructive workflow that’s now missing.)
  • Brush-Along-Curve spacing of brush samples is still very spread out if the curve contains any linear vertices for vox tools like SmoothFill, and Scrape.

Noted Improvements

  • The fact that code has been overhauled is great, glad to hear that kind of effort is being done.
  • Love all the new icons and UI cleanup.
  • Paint Layers Folders are so amazing. A great addition!

 

Comments

I know its still very much a beta, but I would like to see the above issues resolved over introducing other things like modifiers. Also, paint room layers with depth are perfectly good at doing non-destructive displacement.

Since it was introduced, the curves tree and curves editing tools are an amazing and essential part of 3DCoat. However, there was always something confusing to me about the way those tools were presented in the UI (could just be me though). I added an image that has my suggestions, just thinking out loud.

CurvesEditorSuggestions1.png

I could not agree more! Please put all of the curve modes, selection modes, etc. into a panel that can be docked, moved, etc.. One thing that has always caused a lot of pain, and frankly I find it a bit more than frustrating, is how the curves popup always ends up in the way and there is no way around it because it can't be moved. It makes it impossible to place down verts for a curve. It should just be a panel like any other in 3DC.

Please Andrew, make this reality. :)

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:02 AM, AbnRanger said:

Andrew and the team did a boat load of refactoring, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is a bug.

Thanks @AbnRanger - Apologies for the delay. I always appreciate your responses, mate :) 

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On 11/8/2019 at 10:08 PM, Andrew Shpagin said:

1. I changed depth and radius curves, updated preset, switched to other one, switched back, all works as expected. Possibly you unselected storing depth/radius

2. Confirmed, will be fixed.

1. I did a clean install of 3D-Coat 4.9.08 to see if I had a corrupt file somewhere. I tried again and had the same problem. The first time I updated a preset is fine, but any additional updates won't be retained.

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Did painting over stencil and over reference image become much better recently ? I don't remember it working so smoothly. Also it is nice to be able to save the changes.

However, there are some small annoying problems :
-When you paint on stencil on reference, it should not turn your vox layer to surface.

-when you select paint over image, you should be taken to the paint room.
-(and most importantly) Stencil position is not synchronized between sculpt room and paint room. This is caused by the left panel not being the same width, I think. The position of the stencil seems to be tied to elements of the ui.

edit :
-when you choose save duplicate from the popup menu, the stencil panel doesn't refresh. You need to use the dropdown menu to go to another folder and back for the new stencil to appear in the list.

Edited by lesaint
forgot to add one thing

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On 11/9/2019 at 11:20 AM, Mystical said:

@Andrew Shpagin I'm happy to report is looks like the crash with my large file that I was getting in 4.9.06  and 4.9.07 no longer occurs in the latest beta build: 4.9.08

 

I am not sure what you did to fix the crash or what the root cause was but thank you for looking into it. If I come across any other issues or crashes will let you know once I get more time to test things out.

File should load correctly in last version.

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7 hours ago, SilverCity said:

1. I did a clean install of 3D-Coat 4.9.08 to see if I had a corrupt file somewhere. I tried again and had the same problem. The first time I updated a preset is fine, but any additional updates won't be retained.

Thanks, reproduced and fixed. It was a potentially dangerous problem (unlimited files size growth), thanks.

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So, will the refactoring of the code help in any way the progress of the Linux build? Is there any progress on that front? I'd love to try all that goodness that's been developed lately without rebooting (and thus breaking my workflow.)

Thanks in advance for any answer I might get. :-)

 

Edited by Allabulle

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12.11.2019 4.9.09[beta]

- Reference/stencils painting streamlined. No switching to surface mode when the ref is painted. Auto-switch to the paint room. Duplicated stencils appear in UI immediately.

- Rect selection enabled for vox hide.

- Possibility to manipulate points of curves in "add curve points" mode.

- Cell hide got rectangular/ellipse etc modes back. Hide with CTRL works correctly.

- Rename/update hint for presets works correctly.

- Delete/Clear all for Presets work correctly

- Drag&Drop for presets items.

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12 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Thanks, reproduced and fixed. It was a potentially dangerous problem (unlimited files size growth), thanks.

Andrew could you not reproduce the issue I've been bring up about the subdivision in PPP mode @ 16K texture res creating artifacts at the seams painting with smart materials that have depthmaps/displacement textures? am i doing something wrong or is a confirmed problem and a potential fix is coming soon or just has to be discovered in time? I feel really invisible here, I've asked this now several times on the forum in this thread and another dating back about a year without an official response except from carrots but it was not confirmed by 3DCoat team but rather from other users on the forum.  I  prefer 3DCoat to paint with but I may have to find an alternate solution. Ptex would be great if the UVs somehow were generated seamless too but it would need to work properly with smart material's depthmap/displacement. 

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30 minutes ago, Ascensi said:

Andrew could you not reproduce the issue I've been bring up about the subdivision in PPP mode @ 16K texture res creating artifacts at the seams painting with smart materials that have depthmaps/displacement textures? am i doing something wrong or is a confirmed problem and a potential fix is coming soon or just has to be discovered in time? I feel really invisible here, I've asked this now several times on the forum in this thread and another dating back about a year without an official response except from carrots but it was not confirmed by 3DCoat team but rather from other users on the forum.  I  prefer 3DCoat to paint with but I may have to find an alternate solution. Ptex would be great if the UVs somehow were generated seamless too but it would need to work properly with smart material's depthmap/displacement. 

The main problem is that I don't understand the clear way to reproduce. Please provide any steps to get to the problem. Usually, if the problem may be reproduced, I fix it quickly.

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34 minutes ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

12.11.2019 4.9.09[beta]

- Reference/stencils painting streamlined. No switching to surface mode when the ref is painted. Auto-switch to the paint room. Duplicated stencils appear in UI immediately.

- Rect selection enabled for vox hide.

- Possibility to manipulate points of curves in "add curve points" mode.

- Cell hide got rectangular/ellipse etc modes back. Hide with CTRL works correctly.

- Rename/update hint for presets works correctly.

- Delete/Clear all for Presets work correctly

- Drag&Drop for presets items.

Thanks for the updates. Andrew, I have 2 small requests for the VOX HIDE tool. It should be in the Voxel Brushes section, where it's much easier to find and access while sculpting with other voxel brushes. It is a VERY popular brush/tool, so that is the best spot for it (maybe at the bottom of the brush section). When I want to use it, it is a bit tedious and somewhat annoying to have to scroll down to the Adjust section, and then scroll back up to use your brushes. Having it in the same section as the brushes makes it more efficient and intuitive.

Second, can we PLEASE have VOX HIDE respect brush alphas and DEPTH LIMIT values? Others have requested this in the past, and I wanted to bring it up again. It makes a very powerful tool even more so.

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