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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 BETA testing thread

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Agreed. I always have to find ways to work around it. Though I do like having it nearby.

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1 hour ago, Javis said:

Hi there! I've complained about this for years. I even did a mock-up on a panel that could contain this, unfortunately nothing ever happened. I really wish this would change, because I can't tell you how often it's gotten in my way of working (hint: Every single time). Hears hoping this might change this time.

Hi@Javis! Recently, I created a topic about Interface and Usability, and I have been trying to collaborate with suggestions and ideas about it.
I was very concerned with suggesting simple things according to the interface elements that exist within 3D-Coat...
This way, theoretically it would be easier to reuse programming codes that are already ready and adapt them according to the idea.
I had thought of another way to access and view the Brushes and Tools (many times that I'm working, I get confused and it takes me a long time to find what I need because the interface is very full of buttons, both on the buttons on the left interface and the buttons with the Space key) and with the simple idea that I had, we could still have a part of the interface on the left that served as an area of custom commands that artists use most in their daily lives.

Below, an image explaining what a different interface mode would look like that brings together the idea of pop-up menus and customizations. I made a quick video simulating and demonstrating the use.
image.thumb.png.85ff772f16c76a4df4547cb8c035a5a3.png

 @Javis Please, Could you put your idea on the topic I talked about?
It would be very interesting if we could mix ideas and suggestions, and according to what is being developed in 3D-Coat we could build a suggestion that could further facilitate the use of 3d-coat making the artist's work faster and more efficient.

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58 minutes ago, philnolan3d said:

Agreed. I always have to find ways to work around it. Though I do like having it nearby.

I really like the idea that interface elements can be accessed via floating buttons that can be freely dragged and positioned anywhere you want.
And when you hover the mouse over or left click on this button, the pop-menu would quickly appear with the corresponding options.
I think this would make the user's job much faster and easier to find tools and brushes without being confused by so many options that appear in front of you.
This would help in organization and usability.

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16 minutes ago, sprayer said:

I am confusing with Surface Material panel, maybe to rename it to Uv sets? Does it make sense?

to me it is "uv sets" that is confusing.
I am not sure, but I think UV set refers to something else in the wider world, outside of 3d-Coat ? If you come from outside, and inspect a model produced in 3d-Coat, it only ever has one single UV set, yes ? regardless of the number of "surface materials", or what 3dc calls "uv sets" in the retopo room.
Other software can produce multiple UV Set for the same geometry, but not 3d Coat, yes ?

If I'm right (I have no formal training in 3d : I am not clear about the terms)
If I'm right, "Surface material" makes MUCH more sense if you only keep one.

The problem with the term material alone is that it is used to mean several things depending on context. Hence why "surface material" is probably appropriate ?

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32 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

to me it is "uv sets" that is confusing.
I am not sure, but I think UV set refers to something else in the wider world, outside of 3d-Coat ? If you come from outside, and inspect a model produced in 3d-Coat, it only ever has one single UV set, yes ? regardless of the number of "surface materials", or what 3dc calls "uv sets" in the retopo room.
Other software can produce multiple UV Set for the same geometry, but not 3d Coat, yes ?

If I'm right (I have no formal training in 3d : I am not clear about the terms)
If I'm right, "Surface material" makes MUCH more sense if you only keep one.

The problem with the term material alone is that it is used to mean several things depending on context. Hence why "surface material" is probably appropriate ?

What confusing me is difference of names here uv set and here surface materials, this is confusing

https://i.imgur.com/KBFpATb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sqYfyIO.jpg

Edited by sprayer
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UVset (UV texture space) = Surface Material = material

Other software can produce multiple UV Set for the same geometry, but not 3d Coat, yes ? 

3DC can produce mutiples UVset (multi-tiled UVs), but only one UVmap.

3DC fit UVs within the default 0 to 1 UV texture space. You can paint with UV tiles outside of the default texture space, but 3DC needs to fit on a single default tile.

UV shell = UV island = UV cluster 

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You can create several UVset (UV texture coordinates) for surfaces. Then assign textures mapped to the surfaces.

Retopo groups = Paint Objects (individual meshes)

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@Carlosan If it the same why it have different names? Outside of 3d coat i was never heard this term. Google for that term will show you shaders, in most app material is shader not uv coordinates. Myabe i am newbies and you think this name is right then it's fine =) 

Also as new user of 3dcoat some elements placement confusing me too. For example UV editor in Texture menu, isn't more logical to have it in Windows\Panels? I understand what this may be because it not visible in other rooms.

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Because it work in different spaces.

UVset assign UVs coordinates to polygon vertex (UV map). UV mapping is the 3D modeling process of projecting a 2D image onto a 3D model's surface.

Surfaces assign texture coordinates to materials (3DC work with one default shader PBR) . UV coordinates become Texture coordinates.

Materials (appearance to the surface) are how every render engine differentiate surfaces between non-reflective and reflective (assigned to every mesh) with shaders properties.

related...

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21 hours ago, sprayer said:

I am confusing with Surface Material panel, maybe to rename it to Uv sets? Does it make sense?

I kind of disagree.  For some imports this distinction is necessary.  Like an 3d object can have Surface names (collections of polys) separate from layers (i.e. Layers in Lightwave or Paint Objects in 3DC) plus layers in 3DC (i.e. paint or sculpt layers - like photoshop).  You may apply a material to a surface (i.e. the collection of polys to be mapped in a UV set) but you don't have to.  a Surface material can just be used to separate where materials are applied.

I completely agree with you though that naming issues maybe needed - it's tricky to navigate the terminology of multiple apps and common denominator usage should apply - but only if the thing being named fully matches the term.

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20 hours ago, Silas Merlin said:

to me it is "uv sets" that is confusing.
I am not sure, but I think UV set refers to something else in the wider world, outside of 3d-Coat ? If you come from outside, and inspect a model produced in 3d-Coat, it only ever has one single UV set, yes ? regardless of the number of "surface materials", or what 3dc calls "uv sets" in the retopo room.
Other software can produce multiple UV Set for the same geometry, but not 3d Coat, yes ?

If I'm right (I have no formal training in 3d : I am not clear about the terms)
If I'm right, "Surface material" makes MUCH more sense if you only keep one.

The problem with the term material alone is that it is used to mean several things depending on context. Hence why "surface material" is probably appropriate ?

I "get" UV Sets because they are just a collection of vertices with UV mapping data associated with them.  They are called UV maps in other apps and "maps" in general are just collections of vertex indices with associated data.  UV maps are lists of vertices with UV data. Morph maps (or Blendshapes) have vertex translation/normal data associated with them. Color maps have vertex colors associated with them. Weight maps have weighting values for use by bones etc.  Other apps can have multiple UV sets.  This is useful in areas other than game engine content, where you tend to only have 1 UV set per mesh for performance reasons. But you can get around this with different shaders and separating UV sets to different mesh/layers.  3DCoat lets you manipulate multiple UV sets which is necessary for editing imported objects which might have multiple UV sets associated with them.

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20 hours ago, Carlosan said:

3DC can produce mutiples UVset (multi-tiled UVs), but only one UVmap.

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but 3DC can produce multiple maps - but only 1 is the "default" or main map.

This map is "flagged" in the object as the first or default main map which is used by other software that doesn't actually manage multiple UV maps.  But it does let you create, edit or use multiple UV maps whether imported or created in 3DC.  it's a little clunky as most of this is done in the UV room in the drop down at the top toolbar.

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@popwfx  Thanks for your clarification, I have never seen it before. Could you explain how you do it? Thank you

Note: i mean this

UVmaps.jpg

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Hey,  does new brush system implementation include a displacement brush mid value. (50 % grey value is 0 etc) ?

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Something is broken with the stencils when used with rectangle stroke mode only :

Steps to reproduce
-Place a stencil over an object in voxel mode
-use the rectangle stroke mode with for example the airbrush tool : Stencil works as expected
-inc
rease the voxel resolution
-draw a rectangle over the stencil again : the projected shape is now much smaller than the stencil, and offset from its position.
- increase the voxel resolution again
-now the shape is even smaller

-Switch to one of the brush stroke modes : the stencil works as expected.


 

Honestly it's a minor inconvenience to me :D If the projector feature broke this, I prefer keeping the projector even with this problem !

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19 hours ago, Carlosan said:

@popwfx  Thanks for your clarification, I have never seen it before. Could you explain how you do it? Thank you

Note: i mean this

UVmaps.jpg

Hi @Carlosan,

I'm not sure what you're asking here?  How to make multiple UV maps?  in 3DCoat? or externally and bring them in?  Surely you know about the dropdown in the UV room:

 

 

uv1.jpg

uv2.jpg

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I LOVE the new projector feature ! Thank you so much @Andrew Shpagin !

I made this video showing how you can make a 3d model from a single picture with it.
I used a Royal Dux figurine for this test, "The Spring", of which you can find several photos on the web from various angles. Not enough to make a scan, but enough for this approximative method.
There is a distortion on one axis, I think because you would need to match the FOV with that of the camera when the picture was taken, but, I have no knowledge of these things, and it only really becomes a problem if you try to recreate a full scene from a picture. Extracting just one single element of the picture does not create too much distorsion, usually.
 

The projector comes into play 2 minutes into the video.

Playback speed is X4, which means the total duration of this experiment is 80 minutes.

I have only used the "pick from stencil" mode so far. This is the mode that works best for my purpose : it acts as expected in perspective view.
If you pick from reference image, the projection seems to be orthographic, even when your view is in perspective mode. There must be a use for this, maybe when you work in orthographic view, I don't know.
I have not tried "pick from material"


If I may suggest improvements to the projector tool, here is what is missing :

-The ability to toggle on/off repeat (tiling) in the projector panel.

-The ability to toggle on/off "ignore back faces" in the projector panel : That is, a mode in which the mesh/voxels block the projection instead of going through and repeating on the other side.
This is the most important improvement that is missing. Because it becomes very confusing when you are trying to work on "the other side", or when you need to dig on the side an area that is hidden from the original viewpoint. For example if you try to sculpt the back of an ear, but the projection goes through, which is very distracting.
It means you have to turn off the projector to work on those areas.

-An independant intensity slider in the projector panel : This intensity should affect only the projection, not the whole scene, so that when "ignore back faces" is on, the parts of the scene not "illuminated" by the projector are only affected by the scene lighting, not the projector.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another video showing how to set up the projector from scatch, from the splash screen.
What is not shown is that you need to select a shader and a panorama that will enable you to get a sense of the shape you are sculpting while the image is projected onto it.
It is good to synchronize the stencil with the reference image because when you save your file, the reference image gets saved, whereas the stencil position does not.
It is important to press CTRL+UP to save a new camera position where you set up your stencil. Especially if you play with FOV because that gets saved along with camera position.

 

Set the Stencil first, then the reference image, because scaling the reference image is much more precise than scaling the stencil with the magnifier in the toolbar.

Edited by Silas Merlin
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@popwfx Thx for your reply. Yes, i know about UVsets. I was asking to assign 2 different UVmaps to same polygons. As i remember is not possible to generate Lightmaps.

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On 6/1/2020 at 3:32 PM, stusutcliffe said:

Is this being looked at. Faceting when splitting/ cutting off .This bug has been going on for a while .Its mighty annoying have to keep switching off the new curves which I am slowly getting to like. I think I have done a couple of cut off/splits that have worked correctly but I think it was when I was just testing it on a sphere. When you really need it its annoying.

Split.jpg is new curves

Spit2.jpg is old curves

Split.JPG

split2.JPG

Trying to earn a living today, difficult when things dont work terribly well. Is it just me. There must be some one else who cant split/cut off properly.

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1.07.20 4.9.52 (stable)

- Primitives in Voxels got important improvement - good quality of edges even in low resolution. Edges are smoothed a bit instead of pixelation.

- Cutoff with new curves improved, more accurate cutoff.

 

For some time (not long) I will dive into UI refactoring/remaking to make the possibility of own customizable workspaces/rooms.

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Ugh I just finished installing the last one! LOL Thanks for all the updates, this one looks very useful.

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