3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread

[superman punch]

1 hour ago, AbnRanger said:

무엇이 그것을 해결 했습니까? 앱을 다시 시작 하시겠습니까?

.3dcoat 4.8.22/3dcoat 4.8.23

 The version is not available.

3dcaot 4.8.23SL 
It works very well.

[AbnRanger]

2 hours ago, superman punch said:

.3dcoat 4.8.22/3dcoat 4.8.23

 The version is not available.

3dcaot 4.8.23SL 
It works very well.

Oh. That's right. SL stands for Sculpt Layers. Andrew is offering builds with it and a version without it, for stability purposes.

[tokikake]

Hi at first thanks to try keep unit scale between session for new beta. But what I really annoying thing is,, 3d coat unit seems not apply for grid.

I import 1m cube from blender with default scale (1.0) as obj.

then I set  Unit  etc ,

1 in sculpt room>geometry>Edit scene scale ,   scale 1.00 and all off set = 0.00   ,

2  geometry > Define mesurement units  , set  Units = Meters,  Voxel per unit = 1000 (so I hope to generate voxel  1 mm density), Unit scale = 1.00

3  I set Measure tool option,   Units as meters = 1M

So in my pic, it seems correctly shown. But I needed to tweak around for Grid units,,,    as I mentioned,,  I set 1 unit as 1 meter.

but 3d coat grid seems not use the 1M units, even though I set up-so.

I needed to set Grid Step as "1000," "0.001" (edit),  then it can show reasonable 1m grid (division 1) .  when  I set Grid Step as 1 without knowing it,, my obj is too small in 3d view. 

so I needed to serch around what cause problem still.  untill I set grid step as 1000,  I can not find any grid to get aproximate size,   without mesure tool.

I do not think, it is reasonable.  usually I expect, mesurement units = grid units.

  so Grid step seems try to count voxel density too?    and I hope to know, what means, "keep unit scale between session" ?

because once I close 3d coat, then next time I import new obj for paint room, I needed same step from scratch. 

 So I need to save scene first, and everytime use the scene untill import obj? 

 I definetly suggest, please offer option to use same unit scale, and grid setting in user preference. It is most important setting I believe.  

once I decide it, do not hope to change it for each session.  without I need to change them. 

It  is not useful, just to get same unit scale,,  If  I need to keep session or I need to use same saved file to import obj,  everytime. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by tokikake

[tokikake]

3d Coat  beta  (windows 4.8.23(64bit)) ,  winows 10 XP.

Even though I change "voxel per units" from 1 to 100 , there seems no change about,  geometry "voxel density" 

So it only matter for 3D grid ?  if So there seems no reason, we have menu for "3d Grid custom density"

I change "voxel per units" 1  to 100" ,  but keep measurement unit as 1m.    and import same obj, it do not change voxel density, when I check it with wire frame view.

But the voxel per units effect 3D  "grid". 

There are some properties  about "unit" ,but each unit means is really un-clear.

eg I change paintroom> measurement tool> tool option> measurements units ,from M to cm,

Basically I hope,  it never change actual geometry size. just change how represent actuall size.

so I hope 1M cube need to show as 100 cm.  but it not work so.  if I change "mesurement units",

1m cube change as 1cm.   at same time it change grid size.   

 

I think, to measure geometry for actuall world

1 world units .    it decide "1 unit distance" to import and  generate mesh.  from import format each values.

2  measure tool units ,  it never effect mesh size.   just change how represent "length". so 1M length = 100 cm  , if it not work so,  it can not work as measure tool.

3 3D view Grid density,  it simply decide sub grid counts of 1 units.  

4 voxel density, it decide voxel (for sculpt) counts for 1 units 

every 1 unit length should be same. and it decide by "world units"

So about 3d coat, each tool "units"  represent what value?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carlosan]

Your detailed issue was reported, Thx.

[The_Mikeman]

Possible bug in 3D-Coat-V4.8.23SL (demo mode)

Move tool triggers "hidden color information" icon in vox layer.

Similar thing in pose tool.

 

 

I don't know if that's how it should be.

[AbnRanger]

Can anyone else confirm that using numeric input for Rotation is not possible with 3DCoat build 4.8.23SL? I tested it in 4.8.20 and the widget LMB + SPACE bar works. Seems broken in 4.8.23SL, and obviously, there is no way to type in a numeric value in the Tool Options panel since Andrew removed those options for some strange reason.

We REALLY need a means to set what axis the camera will look down when it creates these thumbnails. Othewise, we often have to rotate the model 180 degrees, which is a big PITA. 

[Tony Nemo]

When doing the lugs on this tire (cloning, transforming and snapping) I unknowingly created additional UV maps (default_1) The real map is labeled "RearTire" and I can find no way to move the contents of the rogue UV map to the one I want short of deleting its contents so I can delete Default_1.  Why these new maps are  generated from a clone (sometimes and not others) is a mystery to me.

Solution: With Commands>Unify UV. A tool I was not familiar with. I found it looking for a way to delete a hidden point.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Tony Nemo
Answer to problem was found.

[Carlosan]

Using numeric input for Rotation is possible with 3DCoat build 4.8.23SL.

LMB > rotate the mesh BUT with LMB still pressed over the gizmo use spacebar.

[Tony Nemo]

What can account for this transformation when baking?

This is the sculpt. After baking, the sculpt is also changed to trash. I've never had a similar outcome and the outer and inner scan depths appear normal.

[Carlosan]

Could you share this project to take a look, please?

[Tony Nemo]

I sent a link to Andrew also.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tt1597wpfdiyamj/BackTires.3b?dl=0

[Carlosan]

Message send.

[Frimasson]

Bug that occur in 4.8.23 (but not in 4.8.20)

Baking displacement from surface sculpt mode create a shelled mesh

How to reproduce it :
Open the defaut sphere in surface sculpt mode
Create an auto retopo mesh
In retopo room bake with per pixel painting with displacement
In sculpt room, the sphere has now a thickness, a shell. Another sphere  appeared inside the first one
 

[Silas Merlin]

16 minutes ago, Frimasson said:

Bug that occur in 4.8.23 (but not in 4.8.20)

Baking displacement from surface sculpt mode create a shelled mesh

How to reproduce it :
Open the defaut sphere in surface sculpt mode
Create an auto retopo mesh
In retopo room bake with per pixel painting with displacement
In sculpt room, the sphere has now a thickness, a shell. Another sphere  appeared inside the first one
 

Problem is, if it is not a sphere, the thickness shatters the mesh outwards in areas with detail.

[Carlosan]

Yes, this bug was confirmed. Thx.

[Taros]

Can someone tell me how to switch off storing camera position when switching brushes?

3D-Coat stores the camera position individually per brush tool. I don't know who had this idea, but it makes me crazy. How to switch this function off? It's unfortunately on by default.

Someone has an idea? Haven't found the option to switch it off.

EDIT: It's a bug. I solved it by resetting the complete user data folder ( I renamed the old one and 3DC created a new clean user data folder). Not nice...

EDIT: Bug not solved. It's still there and I have a solution. See my post below Javis post.

Best wishes
Chri

[Javis]

3 hours ago, Taros said:

Can someone tell me how to switch off storing camera position when switching brushes?

3D-Coat stores the camera position individually per brush tool. I don't know who had this idea, but it makes me crazy. How to switch this function off? It's unfortunately on by default.

Someone has an idea? Haven't found the option to switch it off.

EDIT: It's a bug. I solved it by resetting the complete user data folder ( I renamed the old one and 3DC created a new clean user data folder). Not nice...

Best wishes
Chri

 

Hey Chris!

It should definitely not be storing by default, like you found out. Sorry to hear it was messing with you. Just in case you still want to know where the setting to store it is, it can be found in the Preset panel>What to Store?>Store Camera.

PS - It was my idea.  lol

[Taros]

19 hours ago, Javis said:

 

Hey Chris!

It should definitely not be storing by default, like you found out. Sorry to hear it was messing with you. Just in case you still want to know where the setting to store it is, it can be found in the Preset panel>What to Store?>Store Camera.

PS - It was my idea.  lol

Hi Javis. Basically your idea to store the camera position is very important. Especially when working with texture projections. It's the only way to store the size and position. So I need it too. But I have found how to reproduce the ugly bug. I've reproduced it on a different pc of a friend.

How to reproduce the tool camera store bug in v.4.8.20 (Master) and all later versions:

1. Choose the extrude tool e.g. Move the camera to change the position. Store the tool in the Presets tab. Use the "What to store->Store Camera" option, before storing the preset.

2. Now switch to a different tool. "Smooth" e.g. Change the camera here.

3. Switch back to Extrude, by clicking on the left main menu. -> Voila the camera change eo the "preset" position. WHY?! I've not clicked the preset, I clicked the main tool on the left.

4. Ok. Move the camera now and click on the smooth tool. -> Bam! Camera changes again. To the last smooth camera position... -> Bug

So why this happen? Here is the reason and have to be solved very soon:

As soon as you activate the preset option "Store camera" 3DCoat begins to save the camera for all tools you switch between from now. Even if you don't click on a preset it will load the last used camera positions. This makes an artist crazy.

If you want to solve it temporarly you have two ways currently:
1. Don't use presets by using camera storing mode.

2. Update the preset by disabling the Store camera mode. Then 3D-Coat will update the tools click by click to the new mode.

So. Actually it's still a bug, because storing the camera position is an important feature. Andrew, please fix it.

Best wishes
Chris

[puntoit]

Hi All,

as a long time 3D-Coat user and also a fan of 3dc there are several functions that are not helpful. In the picture below you can see the material seen through the Smart Material Preview and right next to it how it is really being applied.
I usually would expect that in nowadays technology you get what you see. I would be happy if I am doing something wrong. But if not, what is the preview good for?

 

[Silas Merlin]

Smart material preview is so annoying, I try to minimize it and put it out of sight, but often it pops back in in the middle of the screen whenever I pick up a new smart material. Maybe there is a way to disable it completely that I am not aware of ?

 

[puntoit]

well, having a preview is basically a great thing. That way you could/should be able to plan the material before applying it.
@lesaint

,If the preview is bothering you, you can at least make it small by clicking on the pin icon on its top bar.

[Silas Merlin]

Yes, that's what I do, and tuck it in a corner of the screen, out of sight, but often after restart it comes back to the middle of the screen

[Javis]

7 hours ago, Taros said:

Hi Javis. Basically your idea to store the camera position is very important. Especially when working with texture projections. It's the only way to store the size and position. So I need it too. But I have found how to reproduce the ugly bug. I've reproduced it on a different pc of a friend.

How to reproduce the tool camera store bug in v.4.8.20 (Master) and all later versions:

1. Choose the extrude tool e.g. Move the camera to change the position. Store the tool in the Presets tab. Use the "What to store->Store Camera" option, before storing the preset.

2. Now switch to a different tool. "Smooth" e.g. Change the camera here.

3. Switch back to Extrude, by clicking on the left main menu. -> Voila the camera change eo the "preset" position. WHY?! I've not clicked the preset, I clicked the main tool on the left.

4. Ok. Move the camera now and click on the smooth tool. -> Bam! Camera changes again. To the last smooth camera position... -> Bug

So why this happen? Here is the reason and have to be solved very soon:

As soon as you activate the preset option "Store camera" 3DCoat begins to save the camera for all tools you switch between from now. Even if you don't click on a preset it will load the last used camera positions. This makes an artist crazy.

If you want to solve it temporarly you have two ways currently:
1. Don't use presets by using camera storing mode.

2. Update the preset by disabling the Store camera mode. Then 3D-Coat will update the tools click by click to the new mode.

So. Actually it's still a bug, because storing the camera position is an important feature. Andrew, please fix it.

Best wishes
Chris

That's a bummer it's happening, but at least it's repeatable. Andrew will no doubt squash it.  Thanks for narrowing it down.

[Speike-Styles]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:02 PM, puntoit said:

Hi All,

as a long time 3D-Coat user and also a fan of 3dc there are several functions that are not helpful. In the picture below you can see the material seen through the Smart Material Preview and right next to it how it is really being applied.
I usually would expect that in nowadays technology you get what you see. I would be happy if I am doing something wrong. But if not, what is the preview good for?

 

I think this should be one of those Problems that should have been fixed a long time ago, but if hoping gets us there yay! If not this is why it is not being used for real high end stuff. It is not reliable yet. That is why Substance integration has been asked for...for a long time too.

 

One thing that did help fix this problem kinda. Is by Deleting all Document Data made with 3DCoat. And then Storing it fresh. Seems to fix many Bugs that pop up inside of 3DCoat. If you have many Mats or Aphas. Just make one Big Package. And import it back it. I made a 30GB File with this. Yes it might take 30-40 min to import, but it works. Thanks to the " Store Path_Data.. Patch in other Location things are sped up much faster then what I wrote b4.

[AbnRanger]

9 hours ago, Speike-Styles said:

I think this should be one of those Problems that should have been fixed a long time ago, but if hoping gets us there yay! If not this is why it is not being used for real high end stuff. It is not reliable yet. That is why Substance integration has been asked for...for a long time too.

 

One thing that did help fix this problem kinda. Is by Deleting all Document Data made with 3DCoat. And then Storing it fresh. Seems to fix many Bugs that pop up inside of 3DCoat. If you have many Mats or Aphas. Just make one Big Package. And import it back it. I made a 30GB File with this. Yes it might take 30-40 min to import, but it works. Thanks to the " Store Path_Data.. Patch in other Location things are sped up much faster then what I wrote b4.

What is different between the applied Smart Material and the Preview? The Preview does show a higher resolution, but you can either scale up the texture map resolution (TEXTURE menu > Mesh & Texture Resolution) or scale the island up in UV space, to get a matching resolution.

[Speike-Styles]

15 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

What is different between the applied Smart Material and the Preview? The Preview does show a higher resolution, but you can either scale up the texture map resolution (TEXTURE menu > Mesh & Texture Resolution) or scale the island up in UV space, to get a matching resolution.

What is the difference I have no clue I wish I could find the Perfect settings for both of them to be at least 95% reliable, but the truth is far from it.  As much as I love 3DCoat. I till this day believe That the Dev Team should stop working on new Releases and Squash the many " Got YA" Crash moments and Make " Performance " there number one Priority. It is what it is. Until then .. We play the waiting game.

Here is a Example:

Asset has about 32k- 100kPolygons ( Split Parts )

Resolution has to be 8k or higher (3dCoat will not allow over 8k), Brush lag... at Radius 1.6(  3D should have Real Measurements, but this should not effect rendering inside a Preview, but it does.)

Preview of Mat ( here I found the sweet spot, only have a very small play 1x1 size box to preview. I always make sure the Size  of my textures are the same to the output.) So then I commit. Then if I am "Lucky"  it will fill the Object with my desired output, yet most cases you will not see what you get. For some reason the Preview will show properly it will output details poorly once executed. it seems that 3DCoat gives a 50/50 Chance to produce the Proper action. ( I make sure that my settings are not being interfered with common mistakes. ( Layers Filters etc. ) Even if I do not play around with settings it will happen.

Next in line are the Materials itself. It seems that Saving or creating new Materials Works just fine, but after a few weeks 3Dcoats Documents get Corrupted. As if textures were missing and Smart-Mats are no longer readable.. This is why I reset 3DCoats Documents and Clean everything up from time to time.  

Note: I have not tested the Beta Layers Version. Once on Stable Version I hope some things are fixed by than. If so let me know.

 

 

 

 

[puntoit]

I heard about this 4K resolution for material preview too. I think it would make more sense to have the same preview resolution as the project is defined. Due to the "fantastic" preview I often was disapointed by the real result.
In the case above however the main problem is the different tiling in the preview and then the Fill whole Layer version.
Btw. : Cube mapping also does not work in this case in 3d-Coat-V4_8-23-64

[AbnRanger]

4 hours ago, puntoit said:

I heard about this 4K resolution for material preview too. I think it would make more sense to have the same preview resolution as the project is defined. Due to the "fantastic" preview I often was disapointed by the real result.
In the case above however the main problem is the different tiling in the preview and then the Fill whole Layer version.
Btw. : Cube mapping also does not work in this case in 3d-Coat-V4_8-23-64

Cube mapping doesn't display an overlay like the Camera Mapping option does. To see the effect, you have to make some adjustment, like scale, rotate, move.

[AbnRanger]

5 hours ago, Speike-Styles said:

What is the difference I have no clue I wish I could find the Perfect settings for both of them to be at least 95% reliable, but the truth is far from it.  As much as I love 3DCoat. I till this day believe That the Dev Team should stop working on new Releases and Squash the many " Got YA" Crash moments and Make " Performance " there number one Priority. It is what it is. Until then .. We play the waiting game.

Here is a Example:

Asset has about 32k- 100kPolygons ( Split Parts )

Resolution has to be 8k or higher (3dCoat will not allow over 8k), Brush lag... at Radius 1.6(  3D should have Real Measurements, but this should not effect rendering inside a Preview, but it does.)

Preview of Mat ( here I found the sweet spot, only have a very small play 1x1 size box to preview. I always make sure the Size  of my textures are the same to the output.) So then I commit. Then if I am "Lucky"  it will fill the Object with my desired output, yet most cases you will not see what you get. For some reason the Preview will show properly it will output details poorly once executed. it seems that 3DCoat gives a 50/50 Chance to produce the Proper action. ( I make sure that my settings are not being interfered with common mistakes. ( Layers Filters etc. ) Even if I do not play around with settings it will happen.

Next in line are the Materials itself. It seems that Saving or creating new Materials Works just fine, but after a few weeks 3Dcoats Documents get Corrupted. As if textures were missing and Smart-Mats are no longer readable.. This is why I reset 3DCoats Documents and Clean everything up from time to time.  

Note: I have not tested the Beta Layers Version. Once on Stable Version I hope some things are fixed by than. If so let me know.

 

 

 

 

If you are wanting to paint on dense meshes with uber resolution, then vertex painting on high poly sculpts is probably a better way to go. Large brush radius' have always caused a bit of lag, especially on 8k maps and large UV islands (more texel density). It depends on one's hardware, but for V5 a GPU brush engine is supposedly in the works. We'll have to wait and see. But if you really want to push high poly counts and uber large texture maps (16K +), the Mari is probably what you want to work with. I doubt Substance Painter can handle it, either.